WB 3.1 & OS3.5 - A1200 install problem

[PoliceQuest]

Man, i know this is lame, but i would like to have an install guide for fresh wb3.1 install with os3.5 update on a A1200 please.

I have a 20gb HD (clean)
how will i do to install the OS3.5 on my hd.

Q: first install 3.1 and setup hd (it only found 2part of 4gb each - why?)

Q: if i install wb3.1 will the os 3.5 see the rest of the hd size?

WB 3.1 i have on floppy
OS 3.5 i have on a CD

...........aaaaargggghhh!%¤!¤¤"&/

Help wanted

[Charlie]

Hello,
Further detail later if required...

Your issues are rooted in the limitations of 3.1 (KS & WB):

-It can't see a CD drive by default so you need an OS before 3.5 (on CD) can be installed. Hence the need to install 3.1 first (kind-of).
-scsi.device that comes with 3.1 can't see drives bigger than 4gb-ish so that's all you'll see of your 20gb drive in HDToolBox. (Or any IDE drive larger than 4gb-ish)
This is what talks to your HDD @ low level.
-FFS in 3.1 can't use partitions larger than 2gb-ish - Watch out! if you try bigger it may seem to work but your data will soon be gone!
The bit that organises the files you put on your HDD.

So without the aid of something like WinUAE the above dictates certain limitations:
-Install an OS via floppy (3.1), so you can then access the CD to install 3.5.
-The boot partition you put 3.1 on to MUST be less than 2gb. (Same true of later OS's)
-Once 3.5 has replaced 3.1 the updated scsi.device should allow you full access to your 20gb via HDToolBox & partitions can be whatever size you like-ish.
For God's sake DON'T place any boot partitions so that ANY part of said partition is beyond 4gb & DON'T try to make ANY boot partition larger than 2gb-ish! You're relying on the limited ROM versions until 3.5 can load up 'better' versions.

Oh, and even when you've got 3.5 I really, really recommend you don't use FFS even in updated form but use SFS instead.

So:
-Download a 68k copy of SFS, unpack & stick the file on a floppy.
-Install 3.1, making sure your boot partition is not too big - I wouldn't bother making any other partitions - leave the rest of the space free.
-Follow 3.5's instructions for installing for here on in.
-Now get that floppy with SFS on it & transfer the driver to L: on your SYS: (boot) partition.
-Then use HDToolBox to
a) fill the rest of your (hopefully) 20gb drive with partitions remembering you will need at least one more under the 4&2gb limits.
b) install SFS (from L: ) onto the RDB of your HDD & format your new partitions with SFS rather than FFS.
c) make your second partition under 4gb bootable.
-Next copy your new 3.5 install to the other bootable partition that is formatted with SFS - why?
-You're currently booting from an unreliable FFS partition so use HDToolBox to change that to SFS & re-format that!
Ahhh, so that's why I copied my new install to another bootable partition...
...you can always copy it back again.

That should do.

No doubt others with have a swifter / less involved suggestion.

[thomas]

Q: first install 3.1 and setup hd (it only found 2part of 4gb each - why?)

The ROM driver is limited to 16 heads, 63 sectors and 16383 cylinders which limits the drive size to 7.8 GB. This is all an unpatched OS 3.1 can see.

Q: if i install wb3.1 will the os 3.5 see the rest of the hd size?

Yes and no. The patched scsi.device can see the entire drive, but HDToolbox is not able to change the drive size without wiping all partitions.

You can use fixhddsize to make the rest of the drive visible without a complete reinstallation.

how will i do to install the OS3.5 on my hd.

With the above in mind the best way to install OS 3.5 (or OS 3.9) is:

- make a small OS 3.1 installation with CD-ROM drivers. Don't bother doing a full install, it will be deleted later anyway. Just copy the Workbench disk to a bootable partition and install CD-ROM drivers.

- run the OS 3.5 installer and create an emergency boot disk. In OS 3.5 this is the last choice in the menu, in OS 3.9 it's the first.

- boot from the emergency disk and use OS3.5's HDToolbox to install the HDD.

- install 3.1 and OS 3.5 Pre without reboot, then reboot and install OS 3.5 Main. (You can skip one reboot if you boot from the emergency disk. I think it's the one between 3.1 and 3.5 Pre.)

[PoliceQuest]

Hey Charlie!
What do you mean by "-Follow 3.5's instructions for installing for here on in" ?

1. I have installed wb3.1 on a 120mb partition
2. Shall i copy the SmartFileSystem file to L in wb3.1 or os3.5?
3. in hdtoolbox shall i leave all the settings like 0xblablabla as they come up?

/PoliceQuest

[Charlie]

Hi,
Quick tip: If thomas gives conflicting advice to me, listen to him he knows more about this than me.

Having possibly lead you to do this the hard way (apologies) where next?

You need a working 3.1 with CDRom support (either on floppy of on HDD)
If you installed 3.1 onto HDD the fixhddsize link thomas posted is liable to be useful to you.

Running 3.1:
-Bang the 3.5CD & a floppy into their respective drives.
-Fire up the 3.5 installer.
-Choose the 'make an emergency disc' option. You'll need another floppy here.
-Put the 'important' contents of that SFS archive onto the emergency disc.
-If needed put fixhddsize on that disc too. (room may be tight, more than one floppy)
Turn off.
-Boot with the 3.5 disc.
-If you have 3.1 on hdd already run fixhddsize to 'find' the rest of your HDD.
-Fire up HDToolBox & add partitions as you wish. (don't forget the restrictions regarding boot/SYS: partitions) The defaults will do.
-If not already done tick as bootable your future SYS: partition.
-Notice the two buttons bottom-right of the GUI? One (can't remember) will open a window allowing you to add a custom file-system. Use that to navigate to where you put SFS & install it into your HDD.
-Next select each of your partitions in turn. Click the 'other' button on the bottom-right. The new window has a menu top-left. With this you can select SFS instead of FFS. (most likely named here CFS/0) DO NOT DO THIS TO THE 3.1 PARTITION ON YOUR HDD if you want to keep its contents!

Back to WB:
-See all those new partition icons? Format them all giving them appropriate names. Sys, system, workbench would do for your boot/SYS: partition. ONLY QUICK FORMAT! Don't format your 3.1 partition if you have one & want to keep it. I'd suggest only the boot/SYS: partition needs a bin.
-Install 3.1 (if you haven't already).
-Install 3.5pre (the 3.5 installer?).
-Install 3.5main (the installer again).
There may be some reboots involved here.

Now, if you started with a 3.1 boot floppy you're done

If you started with 3.1 on your HDD then your new Boot partition with 3.5 on it will still be using FFS!

If so:
-Copy the whole contents of your new 3.5 partition (inc the hidden folders) to another partition suitable for booting (under 2&4gb).
-Fire up HDToolBox (again) & make that partition bootable. Then, as above, change that FFS partition to SFS.
-From WB quickFormat your boot/SYS: partition! Oh-yes! Don't worry, you copied it & made to copy bootable.
-Now you can copy it all back again, remembering to make sure in HDToolBox that it's bootable.
(there may be a couple of reboots in the above)

Now all the partitions are SFS, AND you have two bootable copies of your new 3.5 install.

The bad:
That was more work than necessary...

The good:
With two bootable partitions if you stuff up your main one your miggy should automatically boot from the backup - neat eh?
Boot order?
-Higher numbers in HDToolBox take priority.
-Partitions nearer the start of the drive first if the priority numbers are =.

[thomas]

giving them appropriate names. Sys,

Never call a partition Sys. This conflicts with the Sys: assign which always points to the boot disk.

[PoliceQuest]

@Charlie
@thomas
Thanks guys, you have helped me alot with this.....i'm runnin' AmigaOS3.9 now

/PoliceQuest

[Charlie]