Anyone tried a 15kHz RGB video card for emulation?

buckrogers · 22 March 2005, 12:05

Has anyone tried using a 15kHz RGB output video card on a PC? The one thing I can't stand with emulation is the output on a VGA monitor. Putting in the scan lines helps, but the color suffers, and there is always those blocky looking pixels. I wonder how an emulated amiga (and other machines) look on a "real" display.

wlcina · 22 March 2005, 12:10

try your tv output and connect pc to tv :-)

buckrogers · 22 March 2005, 12:15

That's an idea I never thought of. But composite video sucks. Well at least it does once you get used to a large RGB monitor.

alexh · 22 March 2005, 16:59

Use SVHS instead of composite?

Amiga1992 · 22 March 2005, 17:11

It's still nowhere near the quality of RGB!

Sune Salminen · 22 March 2005, 17:19

Take a look at the ArcadeVGA from Ultimarc. It is designed to be used with MAME on an arcade monitor or a TV with SCART (RGB) input.

It's based on the Radeon 9200 chipset but has a modified BIOS and special drivers that allows it to run 15Khz modes. It comes with a breakout cable so you can put your own connector on it depending on what type of display device you will be using. Or you can make your own cable. I'm sure it will work fine with WinUAE at native Amiga resolutions.

www.ultimarc.com

Still, depending on where you live, you could probably pick up an A500 with a 1084 monitor for around the same price or just a little more...

Or, you could do this (this is what I have done - i need my main 5900XT AGP card for gaming, so i'm doing it with a Radeon 7000 PCI. For now, its just for movies though): http://www.idiots.org.uk/vga_rgb_scart/
New revised version: http://ryoandr.free.fr/english.html

fiath · 23 March 2005, 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

It's still nowhere near the quality of RGB!

Just a clarification. S-Video is actually pretty good. Not quite RGB, but fairly close - you would have to look carefully to see the difference. The problem with PC's is that the TV encoding chips on the graphics cards generally suck very badly, and most will not allow native PAL *input*. It has to be usually 800x600 or 640x480 which the graphics card does overscan and interpolation to get it to 720x576 (PAL) *output*.

I think the best solution is the one Sune mentioned, and drive your display using the VGA-out. I built this one to drive a PC-based PVR, and it works very well! The circuit even fits inside the SCART connector if you are careful. However you will need to make sure you output native PAL/NTSC otherwise you could break your TV (not very likely on newer models, but still...).

tin · 23 March 2005, 08:41

I'd have to agree - s-video is much nearer to RGB than it is to composite.

ElectroBlaster · 27 March 2005, 00:47

Anything radeon based is the one to go for, thats why Ultimarc went for the rad 9200 as a cheap base! ATi cards have excellent tv out, they can even output direct to a tv without having a vga/tft monitor connected! none of my nvidia cards can boast that feature.

I have a radeon 9600 all in wonder hooked up to an 100hz widescreen tv using rgb scart! I can quite happily use the pc for browsing, games and emulation

EDIT: Does anybody here own one of these arcade vga cards? I just had a nose at the site and the card looks like a standard 9200SE.. possible Hercules or Sapphire with a jumper for NTSC and PAL. If this is the case I wonder if the bios can be modded on a normal card turning it into an arcade vga

Generale · 27 March 2005, 01:14

depending on your hardware, you can force a pc gfx card into 15khz.
It's been a while, so I dont remember specifics. Just search for arcade emulation and you should find some good sites with the software.

fiath · 27 March 2005, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectroBlaster

ATi cards have excellent tv out

Not according to the MythTV lists (PVR for Linux), but not having one, I couldn't say how it matches nVidia's. I'd certainly be surprised if they could get any worse. Also note that Linux people don't seem to like ATI very much because their Linux drivers barely work, so there may be some predudice there.

Quote:

they can even output direct to a tv without having a vga/tft monitor connected! none of my nvidia cards can boast that feature.

Ummm... So can both my GF2Ti and my GF4MX. You just boot it with only the TV plugged in... Is that what you meant?

22 March 2005, 12:05	#1
buckrogers Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia Age: 46 Posts: 107	Anyone tried a 15kHz RGB video card for emulation? Has anyone tried using a 15kHz RGB output video card on a PC? The one thing I can't stand with emulation is the output on a VGA monitor. Putting in the scan lines helps, but the color suffers, and there is always those blocky looking pixels. I wonder how an emulated amiga (and other machines) look on a "real" display.

22 March 2005, 17:19	#6
Sune Salminen Dinamáquina Join Date: May 2002 Location: BH/Brasil Age: 49 Posts: 370	ArcadeVGA Take a look at the ArcadeVGA from Ultimarc. It is designed to be used with MAME on an arcade monitor or a TV with SCART (RGB) input. It's based on the Radeon 9200 chipset but has a modified BIOS and special drivers that allows it to run 15Khz modes. It comes with a breakout cable so you can put your own connector on it depending on what type of display device you will be using. Or you can make your own cable. I'm sure it will work fine with WinUAE at native Amiga resolutions. www.ultimarc.com Still, depending on where you live, you could probably pick up an A500 with a 1084 monitor for around the same price or just a little more... Or, you could do this (this is what I have done - i need my main 5900XT AGP card for gaming, so i'm doing it with a Radeon 7000 PCI. For now, its just for movies though): http://www.idiots.org.uk/vga_rgb_scart/ New revised version: http://ryoandr.free.fr/english.html

27 March 2005, 00:47	#9
ElectroBlaster Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Exeter, Devon, UK Age: 49 Posts: 1,705	Anything radeon based is the one to go for, thats why Ultimarc went for the rad 9200 as a cheap base! ATi cards have excellent tv out, they can even output direct to a tv without having a vga/tft monitor connected! none of my nvidia cards can boast that feature. I have a radeon 9600 all in wonder hooked up to an 100hz widescreen tv using rgb scart! I can quite happily use the pc for browsing, games and emulation EDIT: Does anybody here own one of these arcade vga cards? I just had a nose at the site and the card looks like a standard 9200SE.. possible Hercules or Sapphire with a jumper for NTSC and PAL. If this is the case I wonder if the bios can be modded on a normal card turning it into an arcade vga Last edited by ElectroBlaster; 27 March 2005 at 00:59.

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22 March 2005, 12:10	#2
wlcina Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Czech republic Posts: 580	try your tv output and connect pc to tv :-)

22 March 2005, 12:15	#3
buckrogers Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia Age: 46 Posts: 107	That's an idea I never thought of. But composite video sucks. Well at least it does once you get used to a large RGB monitor.

22 March 2005, 16:59	#4
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,337	Use SVHS instead of composite?

22 March 2005, 17:11	#5
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	It's still nowhere near the quality of RGB!

23 March 2005, 08:41	#8
tin Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: chester Posts: 415	I'd have to agree - s-video is much nearer to RGB than it is to composite.

27 March 2005, 01:14	#10
Generale Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Land of Oz Age: 43 Posts: 16	depending on your hardware, you can force a pc gfx card into 15khz. It's been a while, so I dont remember specifics. Just search for arcade emulation and you should find some good sites with the software.

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