Guide to the CF/SD/SSD jungle, what's your speed?

Photon · 26 September 2008, 19:15

As the title hints, I'm on the lookout for the fastest non-HDD solution. It's for my Amigas, but mostly it's about me being lost in the jungle when it comes to cards/SSD

I'm sure more Amiga users are like me, and I'm sure many just bought a card at a photo shop and are glad it works.

The ones I have work, but I'm after hard facts about these things that you (with misc. interfaces) connect to use instead of a harddisk.

So,

1. Is CF faster than SD on both reads and writes? Or is that different for individual models?
2. Which card models has the best speed and access times?
3. Which is the optimal non-harddisk solution?
4. What speed is YOUR card, and are you satisfied?

So come on people, post your benchmarks!

(Admin: sticky, maybe?)

Toni Wilen · 26 September 2008, 19:31

Some CF cards have speed rating marked (somethingX = X * 150kB/s)

80x CF = ~10MB/s = should be faster than any classic Amiga IDE or SCSI-2 controller.

I have Sandisk ExtremeIII 8G CF (30MB/s max transfer speed according to Sandisk) connected to ACard IDE-SCSI + Blizzard SCSI adapter connected to Blizzard1260 and I can get ~7.5MB/s transfer speeds (if set to syncronous mode, async is only 3.5MB/s for some reason)

SSD's are generally faster but also pointless option when connected to Amiga

Charlie · 26 September 2008, 21:36

@Toni:
Lazy question - which ACard are you using? Where from? Thanks.

@Photon:
All my CF cards happen to be ScanDisk II's & I have no complaints at all. Couldn't comment about speed specifics other than they seem a little snappier on boot & disc access than real HDD's...
...I guess SSD's as Toni says are rather over the top for the Amiga, though an IDE-SD adapter has some appeal for me as my TabletPC has just such a slot & it means a less obtrusive hole to cut in the old miggy...
...not tried one yet.

Toni Wilen · 26 September 2008, 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie

@Toni:
Lazy question - which ACard are you using? Where from? Thanks.

AEC-7720U, Vesalia (=quite expensive but I think it is the only shop that sells ACards and Indivision AGA I think.. I don't support ebay.)

I now have 3xAEC-7720U. One in CDTV, one in SupraDrive 500XP and now one in A1200.. (A1200 IDE is crappy and I finally got Blizzard SCSI adapter)

Photon · 26 September 2008, 23:07

OK, as soon as I get hold of a Trumpcard 500 Pro or its bootrom or bootrom image I am ordering from Vesalia

And SSD is ofc ass-expensive and not at all pointless for *any* computer owner. A 4-16GB SSD for C: and a USB 1TB HDD is an optimal solution. Would be interesting to see an SSD+SCSI-to-SATA benchmark on an Amiga 8)

SSD cuts boot time to 30% on any platform.

80x etc is fine, but I'm more after hard facts applied to Amiga HW. Wikipedia has info but it would be nice to hear from people that think they bought the perfect card for their Amiga / found an optimal combo

NovaCoder · 01 October 2008, 04:26

I'm using a Sandisk Ulta 2 and IDEFIX Express with a Blizz 1230 Mk4 running OS 3.9 (A1200). I'm having some issues running IDEFIX's version of scsi.device but I'm still up to ~3.3MB/s.

It's not bad, but I was hoping for the full ~5.5MB/s.

StevenJGore · 01 October 2008, 11:26

SysSpeed crashes everytime I run a benchmark (any benchmark, not just drive speed).

Any suggestions or alternatives?

Chain · 01 October 2008, 14:34

just my 2c

tested with some noname (samsung chips) cf card from ebay

Photon · 01 October 2008, 20:24

Nice chart! This is with FFS and kickstart...? Buffered IDE adapter? Optimal mask etc settings? Which SCSI controller?

And how did you measure the time?

Also, the operation that appears the slowest is reading directories, for me. Would be nice to see benchmarks of these too. If I get my Trumpcard booting I promise to bench it with an Acard adapter

So anyway, the brand cf card does not seem to lower SCSI performance? Or would the SCSI bars be even taller with a faster card?

Photon · 19 October 2008, 01:22

OK, ordered 2x 2GB SanDisk Extreme III, now to see if Vesalia has such SCSI adapters in stock...

laser · 19 October 2008, 14:08

Photon,

the most important point for speed is the main hardisk controller
today hardisks or CF cards or SD cards exceeds the A1200 or A4000 ide controller' speed
so....on the A1200 internal ide the speed will be around 2.3 mb/s max
it doesn't matter if you connect a hardisk or a CF or a SD

on the apollo A1200 'turboboards I remember I connected a scsi hardisk on the scsi module and the speed was 5mb/s
but I know that blizzard ' scsi controllers are fasters than apollo...
maybe around 7-8 mb/s

Photon · 19 October 2008, 20:15

Now this is what I'm after! Someone who knows where the bottlenecks are. It took like 2 months, but I've now finally found out the relative speeds of the whole chain, so to speak. Awesome!

I knew ofc that at least the A600 IDE controller was not very fast, although it could also have been due to slow cpu/software. I knew the specs of the cards ofc, but not all print write speeds, access time, etc. And it's also pretty much dragged down by file system and rom software/driver overhead, so I never knew how fast "real world file i/o" speed to expect.

Also, I found out that SCSI rocks and IDE sucks, when it comes to saving cpu cycles. But I didn't know if all SCSI uses dma instead of cpu, I guess they all do?

I had no idea if scsi->ide->cf would work at all, ever. So I didn't buy any stuff 1 year ago.

I had no idea if ide to cf adapters could be a bottleneck, but if "2 for a dollar" ones can do 7.5MB/s, the question becomes a non-question

Also, there was the "CF/SD compatibility" (what I thought) issue. Could a CF card be too "new and fast" to work in an Amiga? I guess, no.

And SSD's are coming down in price - I was shocked to find a 160GB SSD for $800 in a Swe webshop! And 16GB ones are dirt cheap now, they used to be like $1000 a few months back...

So anyway, ordered everything I need... Expecting to kick some fanny with my Trumpcard

My Impact Series II speed sucked big time in comparison, but it boots. Still hoping someone will sell me (a scan of) their Trumpcard bootrom... sob. Please help a poor old A500 lover!

Toni Wilen · 19 October 2008, 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Photon

Also, I found out that SCSI rocks and IDE sucks, when it comes to saving cpu cycles. But I didn't know if all SCSI uses dma instead of cpu, I guess they all do?

All Amiga IDE controllers are PIO. None use DMA. (I guess nobody bothered and Gayle-style basic IDE is really cheap and simple)

Note that some Amiga SCSI controllers are not DMA, for example Supradrive500XP is non-DMA.

26 September 2008, 19:15	#1
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,604	Guide to the CF/SD/SSD jungle, what's your speed? As the title hints, I'm on the lookout for the fastest non-HDD solution. It's for my Amigas, but mostly it's about me being lost in the jungle when it comes to cards/SSD I'm sure more Amiga users are like me, and I'm sure many just bought a card at a photo shop and are glad it works. The ones I have work, but I'm after hard facts about these things that you (with misc. interfaces) connect to use instead of a harddisk. So, 1. Is CF faster than SD on both reads and writes? Or is that different for individual models? 2. Which card models has the best speed and access times? 3. Which is the optimal non-harddisk solution? 4. What speed is YOUR card, and are you satisfied? So come on people, post your benchmarks! (Admin: sticky, maybe?)

01 October 2008, 04:26	#6
NovaCoder Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Melbourne/Australia Posts: 4,400	I'm using a Sandisk Ulta 2 and IDEFIX Express with a Blizz 1230 Mk4 running OS 3.9 (A1200). I'm having some issues running IDEFIX's version of scsi.device but I'm still up to ~3.3MB/s. It's not bad, but I was hoping for the full ~5.5MB/s. Last edited by NovaCoder; 01 October 2008 at 04:42.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
SSD on Amiga?	dirkies	support.Hardware	35	17 April 2017 10:53
Ide Ssd	Ed Raket	support.Hardware	11	20 February 2013 17:36
Few guys into a Jungle, maybe called "Jungle"?	jbenam	Looking for a game name ?	4	07 February 2012 00:14
My first guide - Drakkhen leveling guide	Fragger	Nostalgia & memories	2	08 April 2010 21:35
SSD + Amiga	jmmijo	support.Hardware	9	21 August 2008 10:33

26 September 2008, 19:31	#2
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,513	Some CF cards have speed rating marked (somethingX = X * 150kB/s) 80x CF = ~10MB/s = should be faster than any classic Amiga IDE or SCSI-2 controller. I have Sandisk ExtremeIII 8G CF (30MB/s max transfer speed according to Sandisk) connected to ACard IDE-SCSI + Blizzard SCSI adapter connected to Blizzard1260 and I can get ~7.5MB/s transfer speeds (if set to syncronous mode, async is only 3.5MB/s for some reason) SSD's are generally faster but also pointless option when connected to Amiga

26 September 2008, 21:36	#3
Charlie . . Mouse . . Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Nowhere Age: 55 Posts: 1,792	@Toni: Lazy question - which ACard are you using? Where from? Thanks. @Photon: All my CF cards happen to be ScanDisk II's & I have no complaints at all. Couldn't comment about speed specifics other than they seem a little snappier on boot & disc access than real HDD's... ...I guess SSD's as Toni says are rather over the top for the Amiga, though an IDE-SD adapter has some appeal for me as my TabletPC has just such a slot & it means a less obtrusive hole to cut in the old miggy... ...not tried one yet.

26 September 2008, 23:07	#5
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,604	OK, as soon as I get hold of a Trumpcard 500 Pro or its bootrom or bootrom image I am ordering from Vesalia And SSD is ofc ass-expensive and not at all pointless for any computer owner. A 4-16GB SSD for C: and a USB 1TB HDD is an optimal solution. Would be interesting to see an SSD+SCSI-to-SATA benchmark on an Amiga 8) SSD cuts boot time to 30% on any platform. 80x etc is fine, but I'm more after hard facts applied to Amiga HW. Wikipedia has info but it would be nice to hear from people that think they bought the perfect card for their Amiga / found an optimal combo

01 October 2008, 11:26	#7
StevenJGore Amiga Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: North Yorkshire, UK Age: 46 Posts: 726	SysSpeed crashes everytime I run a benchmark (any benchmark, not just drive speed). Any suggestions or alternatives?

01 October 2008, 14:34	#8
Chain A-Collector, repairments Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Czech Rep. Age: 50 Posts: 1,536	just my 2c tested with some noname (samsung chips) cf card from ebay

01 October 2008, 20:24	#9
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,604	Nice chart! This is with FFS and kickstart...? Buffered IDE adapter? Optimal mask etc settings? Which SCSI controller? And how did you measure the time? Also, the operation that appears the slowest is reading directories, for me. Would be nice to see benchmarks of these too. If I get my Trumpcard booting I promise to bench it with an Acard adapter So anyway, the brand cf card does not seem to lower SCSI performance? Or would the SCSI bars be even taller with a faster card?

19 October 2008, 01:22	#10
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,604	OK, ordered 2x 2GB SanDisk Extreme III, now to see if Vesalia has such SCSI adapters in stock...

19 October 2008, 14:08	#11
laser Banned Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Argentina Age: 51 Posts: 648	Photon, the most important point for speed is the main hardisk controller today hardisks or CF cards or SD cards exceeds the A1200 or A4000 ide controller' speed so....on the A1200 internal ide the speed will be around 2.3 mb/s max it doesn't matter if you connect a hardisk or a CF or a SD on the apollo A1200 'turboboards I remember I connected a scsi hardisk on the scsi module and the speed was 5mb/s but I know that blizzard ' scsi controllers are fasters than apollo... maybe around 7-8 mb/s

19 October 2008, 20:15	#12
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,604	Now this is what I'm after! Someone who knows where the bottlenecks are. It took like 2 months, but I've now finally found out the relative speeds of the whole chain, so to speak. Awesome! I knew ofc that at least the A600 IDE controller was not very fast, although it could also have been due to slow cpu/software. I knew the specs of the cards ofc, but not all print write speeds, access time, etc. And it's also pretty much dragged down by file system and rom software/driver overhead, so I never knew how fast "real world file i/o" speed to expect. Also, I found out that SCSI rocks and IDE sucks, when it comes to saving cpu cycles. But I didn't know if all SCSI uses dma instead of cpu, I guess they all do? I had no idea if scsi->ide->cf would work at all, ever. So I didn't buy any stuff 1 year ago. I had no idea if ide to cf adapters could be a bottleneck, but if "2 for a dollar" ones can do 7.5MB/s, the question becomes a non-question Also, there was the "CF/SD compatibility" (what I thought) issue. Could a CF card be too "new and fast" to work in an Amiga? I guess, no. And SSD's are coming down in price - I was shocked to find a 160GB SSD for $800 in a Swe webshop! And 16GB ones are dirt cheap now, they used to be like $1000 a few months back... So anyway, ordered everything I need... Expecting to kick some fanny with my Trumpcard My Impact Series II speed sucked big time in comparison, but it boots. Still hoping someone will sell me (a scan of) their Trumpcard bootrom... sob. Please help a poor old A500 lover!

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)