WTB: GoldenGate 486slc2

keropi · 18 April 2007, 23:28

title says all, I am looking for the 50mhz gg486slc... anyone willing to sell one?
thanks!

CU_AMiGA · 19 April 2007, 01:59

seriously keropi you have had enough, man!!!!!

Zetr0 · 19 April 2007, 02:08

if i remember correctly you can modify them to take a 486dx100

keropi · 19 April 2007, 07:23

modify it? by removing the soldered 486slc?
if so, then no!

SilentBob · 27 April 2007, 17:02

Yeah, isn't the pinout on the CPUs quite different? AFAIK the 486SLC is a 32-bit CPU with 16-bit external bus. (Much like the 68000 and 80386SX).

Zetr0 · 28 April 2007, 02:38

indeedy, i was wrong on that one, (i missed the slc bit) infact if i recall correctly a 386 dx-40 beats it .... for performance... hmm wasnt the slc varient a cyrix marketing effort as it wasn`t really a 486 in terms.... hmmm this is going back a bit.... but this also the time when amd and intel split and got locked in a heated leagal batle. over plans for the 386... wow so long ago now..... meh...

I have recently got myself an SBC on an ISA card, (it can take upto a K6 II 450mhz on it *thuper thocket theven* ) as i have a GG+ (just bridges the zorro and isa bus) i am wondering if it would function as such with a much faster pc.... hmmmm need to find a decent isa sound/gfx combi card...

keropi · 29 April 2007, 19:08

u need an ISA vga+sound card in one zerto? only the Ati VGA Stereo/FX exists... it has 2 versions, ISA 16bit and XT-ISA...
or you mean 2 seperate cards? better get a cirrus logic based vga and a genuine NON-PNP creative soundcard... or an ESS1868 based one, they work excellent.

Zetr0 · 29 April 2007, 23:40

heres my thought!

There are a lot of ISA based SBC with various processing power, but by and large imensly more powerful than the overly expensive GG386's etc.

I wonder if it would be possible to use the ISA bridge / SBC and other ISA resources such as a Awe64 Gold *with midi wave table*. Would it also be possible to have the SBC boot up say linux / freedos and play either system (Amiga/PC) with say a KVM etc....

hmmm i should ask this in the hardware section....

keropi · 30 April 2007, 07:25

from what I know, an ISA SBC does not activate the amiga ISA slots (for the pc side ofcourse only) and thus u cannot realy use extra isa cards

But I am not entirely sure of that, 90% it won't work....

Zetr0 · 30 April 2007, 12:16

but i could use it as a pc-inside my amiga

and not bother with bridging the zorro-isa ...

this way i could have a full blown K6II@450+mhz running freedos / linux-win98/ on its own inside the same case.... hmmmm i could then network them together using the SBC's onboard 10/100 to the Amiga XSurf2 ... hmmm

What would i miss-out comparied to the GoldenGate 386 and greater?

keropi · 30 April 2007, 13:16

system integration.
with the goldengate u can:
use the amiga floppy as the pc floppy
use the amiga HD to create pc partition(s) or a pc hardfile
use the amiga keyboard and mouse on the pc side
use the amiga ram, serial ports
and you can transfer files between amiga<->pc without actually burn cd's or use floppies...

especially the floppy/keyboard/mouse sharing is a huge space saver! and the internal transfers are convenient too...

Secret Vampire · 30 April 2007, 14:55

For practical purposes though, a good quality KVM would let you share the keyboard/mouse/display, and networking with some appropriate samba or NFS goings on would let you share files. Nobody uses floppies on PCs these days anyway, and if you have some kind of SCSI system you could probably share the CD drive just by getting an ISA SCSI controller for the PC side (Though, personally I'd only take that route for the initial install of the PC, far safer to mount the CD on the amiga side and export it as a share for everyday use)

Adventurous types, especially those without RTG on the Amiga side might want to obtain a copy of siamese and use that to have the PC controlling the Amiga, or, as I believe that there is an X server for the Amiga, use that to control the Linux side, or alternatively, do something with VNC.

Zetr0 · 30 April 2007, 15:30

Thanks for the info Keropi

Reviewing the info there keropi the only way i could weigh up a goldengate 386 (or better) compared to a faster SBC, however it would be best to specify my requirements first...

so here goes it...

Requirements

I want to be able to have a modern-ish (linux/win98) os
I want FULL DOS legacy support
I want it all in the same case
I want to be able to push a button and go from Amiga Doom to PC Quake
I need to share some resources ( hard disk data etc ) keyboard / mouse

With the goldengate 386
<PRO>
I have COMPLETE system integration
I have ALL resources shared
I have it all in the same case
I have it all on the same keyboard/mouse
I can use PC adapter cards (sound / network)
<CON>
I am limmited to DOS
I cannot process enough to play quake
I still have to switch displays/monitors

With the SBC method
<PRO>
I have a newis OS (linux / win2k / 98)
I have FULL DOS and Legacy support
I have more processing power than needed (upto a K6II@550mhz)
I have it all in the same case
I have USB native on the PC
I have 256MB of ram on the PC and 128MB on the AMIGA (independent)
I have full CompactFlash Boot hardware support (its got a special port thingy)
<CON>
System is NOT INTEGRATED I have to use either a SCSI or Ethernet network
I have to use a Keyboard/Video/Mouse box/splitter
I cannot use ANY amiga resources without the network.

Some points

1. KVM
Eitherway I have to use a KVM due the nature of having to swap displays for the monitor

2. Resource Sharing
Technically a 10mbit Ethernet or 40mbit SCSI network isn`t hard to setup and resource sharing can be managed independently between the two.

Floppy drive sharing ( PC & Amiga Floppy )
I believe that this is limmited to the nature of the drive, a regular 880k amiga fdd would only work as a 720k pc floppy... ( i dont have a HD FDD )

I will miss the possiblity of using the Amiga HD(s) for partitions or hardfiles
This is something I would really be interested in using.

Price
If i was lucky enough to find the latest and greatest 486slc Goldengate and populated it with 16MB of ram it would cost me not much shy of £100

this compared to £30 that although doesn`t have Hardware Itegration Offers a far far farrrr faster processing in comparrison.

Final Thoughts
For me there is more possiblity with this DUAL setup using either a SCSI (as both machines can have SCSI2) network or most likely to begin with a Ethernet link (through a small switch) even though maintaining a TCPIP stack on an amiga can cause issues with certain sfotware i feel its a small price to pay for the overall bennefit of clicking a button or tapping a key to swap over to awsome retr0 DOS gamming

CU_AMiGA · 30 April 2007, 19:01

the last goldengate at 25mhz went for just over £150. on uk ebay.

keropi · 30 April 2007, 19:30

I need to mention too, that I never really found an SBC that had a soundblaster compatible onboard sound-card... as a matter of fact, only few sbc's have audio, and most just have an ac'97 codec...
so if the ISA bus does not get activated, there is no sound....

CU_AMiGA · 30 April 2007, 20:24

FINAL, FINAL THOUGHTS:

keropi, considering it's my birthday today, can i have your GoldenGate!

Unknown_K · 01 May 2007, 09:15

The goldengate seems cool, but its expensive. I have a 286 bridgeboard and it is amusing to play with on my 2000, its the only 286 I own.

I have a nice 486/133 card in an old Nubus Mac 68k machine with built in video (2MB VRAM), sound, joystick port, 2 72 pin RAM slots (64MB Max I think) and it can take over the mac monitor full screen, shares all the Mac HD's, networking, floppy, cdrom ,etc. That unit with manual install disks and a retail win95 CD cost me something like $40 shipped on ebay.

I wish Commodore would have lived a few more years, atleast into the PPC age so all the 68K hardware I care about would be as cheap as the old 68k mac hardware I collect now.

Secret Vampire · 01 May 2007, 09:16

Keropi: An ISA SBC will activate the ISA slots, but the Amiga side won't be able to use them. They're designed to be used with passive backplanes, which is what the Ax000 ISA slots are in essence.

I thought about bridging the two with a GG2, but I suspect that all you will get are resource conflicts, I doubt either the SBC or GG2 are particularly nice about sharing the bus.

Zetr0 · 01 May 2007, 12:09

@Secret Vampire

Thanks for the info, I have relegated the GG2, as I only have a 2 port ISA capability, as one is for the SBC the other will have to be for the sound blaster (or compatible lol).

I have to admit i am little excited to think I will be able to play some reall classics again... like quake / starcraft / wing-commander saga etc... ahhh awesome..... and then click a button and I am using my miggy either rendering / raytracing or perhaps a serious game or two.....

now all i gotta do is think on what i am going to use the gg2 for LOL did they ever get ISA graphics support?

keropi · 01 May 2007, 12:59

really? do sbc's activate the A4000's isa slots? I thought they needed some special slots, because the A4000 isa bus is not terminated or something... has anyone really tested it?

18 April 2007, 23:28	#1
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	WTB: GoldenGate 486slc2 title says all, I am looking for the 50mhz gg486slc... anyone willing to sell one? thanks!

29 April 2007, 23:40	#8
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	heres a thought heres my thought! There are a lot of ISA based SBC with various processing power, but by and large imensly more powerful than the overly expensive GG386's etc. I wonder if it would be possible to use the ISA bridge / SBC and other ISA resources such as a Awe64 Gold with midi wave table. Would it also be possible to have the SBC boot up say linux / freedos and play either system (Amiga/PC) with say a KVM etc.... hmmm i should ask this in the hardware section....

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19 April 2007, 01:59	#2
CU_AMiGA Banned Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exeter Age: 39 Posts: 970	seriously keropi you have had enough, man!!!!!

19 April 2007, 02:08	#3
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	if i remember correctly you can modify them to take a 486dx100

19 April 2007, 07:23	#4
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	modify it? by removing the soldered 486slc? if so, then no!

27 April 2007, 17:02	#5
SilentBob Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Norway Age: 49 Posts: 246	Yeah, isn't the pinout on the CPUs quite different? AFAIK the 486SLC is a 32-bit CPU with 16-bit external bus. (Much like the 68000 and 80386SX).

28 April 2007, 02:38	#6
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	indeedy, i was wrong on that one, (i missed the slc bit) infact if i recall correctly a 386 dx-40 beats it .... for performance... hmm wasnt the slc varient a cyrix marketing effort as it wasn`t really a 486 in terms.... hmmm this is going back a bit.... but this also the time when amd and intel split and got locked in a heated leagal batle. over plans for the 386... wow so long ago now..... meh... I have recently got myself an SBC on an ISA card, (it can take upto a K6 II 450mhz on it thuper thocket theven ) as i have a GG+ (just bridges the zorro and isa bus) i am wondering if it would function as such with a much faster pc.... hmmmm need to find a decent isa sound/gfx combi card...

29 April 2007, 19:08	#7
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	u need an ISA vga+sound card in one zerto? only the Ati VGA Stereo/FX exists... it has 2 versions, ISA 16bit and XT-ISA... or you mean 2 seperate cards? better get a cirrus logic based vga and a genuine NON-PNP creative soundcard... or an ESS1868 based one, they work excellent.

30 April 2007, 07:25	#9
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	from what I know, an ISA SBC does not activate the amiga ISA slots (for the pc side ofcourse only) and thus u cannot realy use extra isa cards But I am not entirely sure of that, 90% it won't work....

30 April 2007, 12:16	#10
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	but i could use it as a pc-inside my amiga and not bother with bridging the zorro-isa ... this way i could have a full blown K6II@450+mhz running freedos / linux-win98/ on its own inside the same case.... hmmmm i could then network them together using the SBC's onboard 10/100 to the Amiga XSurf2 ... hmmm What would i miss-out comparied to the GoldenGate 386 and greater?

30 April 2007, 13:16	#11
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	system integration. with the goldengate u can: use the amiga floppy as the pc floppy use the amiga HD to create pc partition(s) or a pc hardfile use the amiga keyboard and mouse on the pc side use the amiga ram, serial ports and you can transfer files between amiga<->pc without actually burn cd's or use floppies... especially the floppy/keyboard/mouse sharing is a huge space saver! and the internal transfers are convenient too...

30 April 2007, 14:55	#12
Secret Vampire Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Birmingham UK Age: 43 Posts: 214	For practical purposes though, a good quality KVM would let you share the keyboard/mouse/display, and networking with some appropriate samba or NFS goings on would let you share files. Nobody uses floppies on PCs these days anyway, and if you have some kind of SCSI system you could probably share the CD drive just by getting an ISA SCSI controller for the PC side (Though, personally I'd only take that route for the initial install of the PC, far safer to mount the CD on the amiga side and export it as a share for everyday use) Adventurous types, especially those without RTG on the Amiga side might want to obtain a copy of siamese and use that to have the PC controlling the Amiga, or, as I believe that there is an X server for the Amiga, use that to control the Linux side, or alternatively, do something with VNC.

30 April 2007, 15:30	#13
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	Thanks for the info Keropi Reviewing the info there keropi the only way i could weigh up a goldengate 386 (or better) compared to a faster SBC, however it would be best to specify my requirements first... so here goes it... Requirements I want to be able to have a modern-ish (linux/win98) os I want FULL DOS legacy support I want it all in the same case I want to be able to push a button and go from Amiga Doom to PC Quake I need to share some resources ( hard disk data etc ) keyboard / mouse With the goldengate 386 <PRO> I have COMPLETE system integration I have ALL resources shared I have it all in the same case I have it all on the same keyboard/mouse I can use PC adapter cards (sound / network) <CON> I am limmited to DOS I cannot process enough to play quake I still have to switch displays/monitors With the SBC method <PRO> I have a newis OS (linux / win2k / 98) I have FULL DOS and Legacy support I have more processing power than needed (upto a K6II@550mhz) I have it all in the same case I have USB native on the PC I have 256MB of ram on the PC and 128MB on the AMIGA (independent) I have full CompactFlash Boot hardware support (its got a special port thingy) <CON> System is NOT INTEGRATED I have to use either a SCSI or Ethernet network I have to use a Keyboard/Video/Mouse box/splitter I cannot use ANY amiga resources without the network. Some points 1. KVM Eitherway I have to use a KVM due the nature of having to swap displays for the monitor 2. Resource Sharing Technically a 10mbit Ethernet or 40mbit SCSI network isn`t hard to setup and resource sharing can be managed independently between the two. Floppy drive sharing ( PC & Amiga Floppy ) I believe that this is limmited to the nature of the drive, a regular 880k amiga fdd would only work as a 720k pc floppy... ( i dont have a HD FDD ) I will miss the possiblity of using the Amiga HD(s) for partitions or hardfiles This is something I would really be interested in using. Price If i was lucky enough to find the latest and greatest 486slc Goldengate and populated it with 16MB of ram it would cost me not much shy of £100 this compared to £30 that although doesn`t have Hardware Itegration Offers a far far farrrr faster processing in comparrison. Final Thoughts For me there is more possiblity with this DUAL setup using either a SCSI (as both machines can have SCSI2) network or most likely to begin with a Ethernet link (through a small switch) even though maintaining a TCPIP stack on an amiga can cause issues with certain sfotware i feel its a small price to pay for the overall bennefit of clicking a button or tapping a key to swap over to awsome retr0 DOS gamming

30 April 2007, 19:01	#14
CU_AMiGA Banned Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exeter Age: 39 Posts: 970	the last goldengate at 25mhz went for just over £150. on uk ebay.

30 April 2007, 19:30	#15
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	I need to mention too, that I never really found an SBC that had a soundblaster compatible onboard sound-card... as a matter of fact, only few sbc's have audio, and most just have an ac'97 codec... so if the ISA bus does not get activated, there is no sound....

30 April 2007, 20:24	#16
CU_AMiGA Banned Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exeter Age: 39 Posts: 970	FINAL, FINAL THOUGHTS: keropi, considering it's my birthday today, can i have your GoldenGate!

01 May 2007, 09:15	#17
Unknown_K Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio/USA Age: 55 Posts: 1,380	The goldengate seems cool, but its expensive. I have a 286 bridgeboard and it is amusing to play with on my 2000, its the only 286 I own. I have a nice 486/133 card in an old Nubus Mac 68k machine with built in video (2MB VRAM), sound, joystick port, 2 72 pin RAM slots (64MB Max I think) and it can take over the mac monitor full screen, shares all the Mac HD's, networking, floppy, cdrom ,etc. That unit with manual install disks and a retail win95 CD cost me something like $40 shipped on ebay. I wish Commodore would have lived a few more years, atleast into the PPC age so all the 68K hardware I care about would be as cheap as the old 68k mac hardware I collect now.

01 May 2007, 09:16	#18
Secret Vampire Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Birmingham UK Age: 43 Posts: 214	Keropi: An ISA SBC will activate the ISA slots, but the Amiga side won't be able to use them. They're designed to be used with passive backplanes, which is what the Ax000 ISA slots are in essence. I thought about bridging the two with a GG2, but I suspect that all you will get are resource conflicts, I doubt either the SBC or GG2 are particularly nice about sharing the bus.

01 May 2007, 12:09	#19
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@Secret Vampire Thanks for the info, I have relegated the GG2, as I only have a 2 port ISA capability, as one is for the SBC the other will have to be for the sound blaster (or compatible lol). I have to admit i am little excited to think I will be able to play some reall classics again... like quake / starcraft / wing-commander saga etc... ahhh awesome..... and then click a button and I am using my miggy either rendering / raytracing or perhaps a serious game or two..... now all i gotta do is think on what i am going to use the gg2 for LOL did they ever get ISA graphics support?

01 May 2007, 12:59	#20
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	really? do sbc's activate the A4000's isa slots? I thought they needed some special slots, because the A4000 isa bus is not terminated or something... has anyone really tested it?

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