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View Poll Results: Do you like or dislike Cloanto? | |||
Dislike | 72 | 48.00% | |
Like | 78 | 52.00% | |
Voters: 150. You may not vote on this poll |
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18 March 2019, 11:16 | #101 |
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What is the point of encrypting it then? Even an absolute novice to the Amiga could rip a kickstart without too much trouble.
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18 March 2019, 11:33 | #102 |
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18 March 2019, 13:56 | #103 |
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How the hell should I know? Try asking the folk that encrypts them. But that would interfere with your moaning outbreaks on forums wouldn't it?
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18 March 2019, 14:54 | #104 | |
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But looking at your username I guess dementia at 92 can explain this kind of insanity, just try to avoid drooling on the keyboard. |
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18 March 2019, 16:21 | #105 |
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You have problem with Your obcession about Amiga Os 4.x and Hyperion.
For rest of Us it is obvious that majority of people who vote "dislike" are classic amiga users who are happy with first big update of 68k Amiga Os after almost twenty years and who are fear that legal mess may stop developing 68k Amiga Os. |
18 March 2019, 16:40 | #106 | ||
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Olafs post was very moderately considering the the one he answered to. Quote:
But as all should know by now: Hyperion did nothing except "allowing" external coders to work on the source code for free - yet Hyperion is charging the customers money and keeping that money for themselves. So besides the legal dispute: this behavior is immoral. |
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18 March 2019, 22:50 | #107 | ||
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It is claimed that Hyperion don't have the rights to produce 3.1.4. If so then why have we not seen anything out of the people who do have the rights? And why are they only now getting upset, when they had all that time to produce and market something themselves but couldn't be bothered? Quote:
What's immoral? Expecting a business to give away their IP for free because people don't want to pay for it. Or just sitting on it while you rack up a million dollars in unpaid taxes, or creating licenses that don't give people the rights they think they have, or turning the Amiga into nothing more than an emulator for PCs. |
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18 March 2019, 22:58 | #108 |
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3.1.4 was organised by the people who coded it. These people believe that Hyperion is the only entity that could legally publish 3.1.4, hence, they approached Hyperion about it. All Hyperion did was offer the product for sale and cash in the money. Cloanto could easily have done the same if the 3.1.4 devs had considered them to be the only legal source for the new OS version.
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19 March 2019, 00:16 | #109 | ||||||||||
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And Hyperion did not "organize" anything. Yeah - they managed to distribute it - what a great achievement in times of the internet. lol. Quote:
Because A-Inc. was even worse than Hyperion. No doubt here. But that was not in Cloantos hands until very recently - so no reason to blame Cloanto for that. Quote:
A-Inc... well they have been great Idiots from the very beginning ... luckily that is now in the past. Quote:
But this fact still does not give Hyperion any bonus points - they still did nothing on their own. Quote:
so they are awarded for failing at every business decision, battling endless lawsuits, braking promises and delivering buggy software. it would have been time to let them finally die and not helping them out of their debts and prolonging this misery! Quote:
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Yes that is immoral. Quote:
Not sure how emulating a PC on Amiga is now relevant .... Last edited by Gorf; 19 March 2019 at 07:14. |
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19 March 2019, 07:44 | #110 | |
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There is more than the legal aspect that plays into the choice. Hyperion did at least one thing right: They attracted - at least in the past - a couple of creative heads to make them work on a PPC version of AmigaOs, which is partly the work we now profit from. Cloanto did.... not so much I am aware of. That does not make their product a bad product, but it makes them a bad partner for an ongoing development because they have shown in the past that this is not what their business model is about. |
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19 March 2019, 12:29 | #111 | |
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19 March 2019, 13:38 | #112 | |||
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The first problem is that all the Hyperion supporters seem to think Cloanto should give up their IP rights so Hyperion can make more money. The second problem is most user's don't bother to ask if they are purchasing stolen software. Last edited by SpeedGeek; 19 March 2019 at 13:58. |
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19 March 2019, 14:50 | #113 | ||||
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As long as you mean "copyright", yes, Cloanto has a copyright on 3.1 and all below, but as by the agreement, Amiga provided an exclusive license for development. So we may have the strange situation that while Cloanto has a copyright, they can only copy the original 3.1, whereas anything developed upon it is at Hyperion, despite the copyright. Bother about what? Bother about "someone is doing development"? I believe they do bother if something new comes along, which is exactly what happens here. |
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19 March 2019, 15:07 | #114 | |||
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My personal opinion is that there is nothing to be done on 1.3 or everything below 3.1 because those are just snapshots of an ongoing development. Cloanto sells an archive of operating systems, which is also desirable, of course. But that is not exactly the right environment for development. It is a different business strategy, and a less developer friendly strategy. Yes and no. No, because all the legal issues are to be discussed in court. But all the market aspects are under user control. So whether a product is successful is of course decided by the users. |
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19 March 2019, 16:33 | #115 | |||
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Cloanto has already stated they were bound by the infamous Hyperion settlement agreement but Hyperion doesn't feel particularly bound by Cloanto's rights under that agreement. IP includes copyright, trademarks and licenses and Cloanto is now the most complete owner of the IP. |
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19 March 2019, 17:27 | #116 | |
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@SpeedGeek
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the beginning btw-there is apparently more to the above. But until there is supporting information concerning the C= violation involved, I'll refrain. #6 |
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19 March 2019, 17:36 | #117 |
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19 March 2019, 17:37 | #118 |
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I'd be curious to know, from all the people in this thread who are complaining about Amiga Forever... how many of you have donated to WinUAE? Perhaps you don't realise that Cloanto provides financial support to Toni Wilen (the WinUAE guy) using money from AF sales (he's on record as saying that things like the OS4 support in WinUAE only happened because Cloanto supported it).
For those of you who are super happy with WinUAE, but haven't donated directly or purchased Amiga Forever, I would humbly ask that you go and give whatever you can, to support a truly great, open source emulator. |
19 March 2019, 17:38 | #119 | |||||
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What we DO not have are 3.9 "H&P internal" contribution, such as the 3.9 prefs, and what we neither have is reaction, and tools based on reaction. Strangely enough, Cloanto does not have these components either. How may that be... So, seriously, you need to adjust quite a bit what 3.1.4 really is. It is "a lot of 3.9" plus "a lot of work on the 3.9 components" minus reaction, minus the 3.9 prefs. Quote:
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It is perfectly fine - and even necessary - to publish IPs. They are published by the patent office, for opening up an invention to the market. Copyright closes access to an implementation or a binary, to an artifact in general. That is, you *patent* an idea, but you *copyright* code, and you have a trademark on a logo (in the US, there is also a "design patent", though this is not what you call a "patent" in Europe). |
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19 March 2019, 17:47 | #120 |
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@ Thomas
“Intellectual property rights include patents, copyright, industrial design rights, trademarks, plant variety rights, trade dress, geographical indications, and in some jurisdictions trade secrets.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property |
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