A1200 on crt via scart - strange double image problem.

milikabdp · 22 September 2017, 07:42

Hi,
Ive got a blank a1200 connected to early 2000s crt via scart.
And got strange double picture, acctually it looks like last frame stays a bit before going away. So horizontal scrolling is strane, not stuttering, but strange.

Any help is appreciated.

Regards

milikabdp · 22 September 2017, 07:45

Here is a screenshot link:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5...l9oTXhxQlBVRkU

Jope · 22 September 2017, 08:45

Is this some 100Hz image processing TV?

Amiga1992 · 22 September 2017, 15:33

It looks like the TV is trying to interpolate between two frames or something, maybe what Jope said, a double refresh rate mode.

Does the TV have a "game" mode you can try to enable? Some TVs have this to disable some of this annoying garbage.

mark_k · 22 September 2017, 16:37

What is the TV make and model?

milikabdp · 22 September 2017, 22:24

Finally ided the model, got it out of plastic.
samsung cz-21h12t
But cant find any info on the net. Any way to find out more?

zipper · 22 September 2017, 23:20

Polish or Hungarian user manuals http://www.nodevice.com/download/use...52t/99097.html
but no specs, just plain user info. Service manual https://elektrotanya.com/samsung_cha.../download.html
no specs either. Probably just a plain "normal" TV-set.

milikabdp · 22 September 2017, 23:38

Thanks.
What can be the problem if its a normal tv?

Amiga1992 · 23 September 2017, 00:43

Even if it doesn't do frame doubling, it could be trying to interpolate SD signals. Mine does interpolation when the image moves, and stuff becomes soft. Not like your photo, but still some artifaction.
On your screenshot, the main character, which remains at the center of the screen all the time, looks crisp. It's the moving parts creating a "ghost".
It could also be (maybe) that it doesn't support 50Hz natively and the way it compensates creates the ghosted image. I don't get smooth scrolling on 50Hz (approximated to 56Hz), have you tried a game running at 60Hz?

milikabdp · 23 September 2017, 00:48

What game works on 60hz? I cant find any ntsc games...

Also i noticed a trail on black if a bright patch pass it, i know crts have it but not this long.
Perhaps tube adjustment?
Or test app for something like thus exists?

milikabdp · 23 September 2017, 01:18

Found a few ntsc games, they look the same as pal ones.
Ive noticed that i need flicker fix cond on my a1200, would that create this kind of a problem?

Toni Wilen · 23 September 2017, 09:08

Test with demo or game that uses interlaced mode and scrolls (for example http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=12475 or Pinball Illusions in interlace mode etc..), if it looks fine without any weird artifacts: it probably is usual progressive PAL/NTSC confusing TV's image processing logic.

milikabdp · 09 October 2017, 05:22

Did all that, looks fine.
Could it be the game? I tested with runftumble mostly?
Can anyone try the game and take a good look at scrolling?
Thanks

22 September 2017, 07:42	#1
milikabdp Registered User Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Novi Sad Posts: 23	A1200 on crt via scart - strange double image problem. Hi, Ive got a blank a1200 connected to early 2000s crt via scart. And got strange double picture, acctually it looks like last frame stays a bit before going away. So horizontal scrolling is strane, not stuttering, but strange. Any help is appreciated. Regards

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
SCART PV on CRT TV (philips 21PT5408)	CFou!	support.Hardware	14	24 July 2017 23:35
A1200 Problem with image, RGB scart [UNSOLVED]	trydowave	support.Hardware	5	27 December 2015 17:15
scart kabel and old crt monitor	lolof	support.Hardware	1	31 January 2015 01:08
RGB scart from A1200 to lcd problem	Ox.	Amiga scene	11	13 October 2014 12:22
RGB Scart Cable/CRT TV Issue	Specksynder	support.Hardware	13	28 August 2014 19:09

22 September 2017, 07:45	#2
milikabdp Registered User Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Novi Sad Posts: 23	Here is a screenshot link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5...l9oTXhxQlBVRkU

22 September 2017, 08:45	#3
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,879	Is this some 100Hz image processing TV?

22 September 2017, 15:33	#4
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,646	It looks like the TV is trying to interpolate between two frames or something, maybe what Jope said, a double refresh rate mode. Does the TV have a "game" mode you can try to enable? Some TVs have this to disable some of this annoying garbage.

22 September 2017, 16:37	#5
mark_k Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Posts: 3,344	What is the TV make and model?

22 September 2017, 22:24	#6
milikabdp Registered User Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Novi Sad Posts: 23	Finally ided the model, got it out of plastic. samsung cz-21h12t But cant find any info on the net. Any way to find out more?

22 September 2017, 23:20	#7
zipper Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: finland Posts: 1,841	Polish or Hungarian user manuals http://www.nodevice.com/download/use...52t/99097.html but no specs, just plain user info. Service manual https://elektrotanya.com/samsung_cha.../download.html no specs either. Probably just a plain "normal" TV-set.

22 September 2017, 23:38	#8
milikabdp Registered User Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Novi Sad Posts: 23	Thanks. What can be the problem if its a normal tv?

23 September 2017, 00:43	#9
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,646	Even if it doesn't do frame doubling, it could be trying to interpolate SD signals. Mine does interpolation when the image moves, and stuff becomes soft. Not like your photo, but still some artifaction. On your screenshot, the main character, which remains at the center of the screen all the time, looks crisp. It's the moving parts creating a "ghost". It could also be (maybe) that it doesn't support 50Hz natively and the way it compensates creates the ghosted image. I don't get smooth scrolling on 50Hz (approximated to 56Hz), have you tried a game running at 60Hz?

23 September 2017, 00:48	#10
milikabdp Registered User Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Novi Sad Posts: 23	What game works on 60hz? I cant find any ntsc games... Also i noticed a trail on black if a bright patch pass it, i know crts have it but not this long. Perhaps tube adjustment? Or test app for something like thus exists?

23 September 2017, 01:18	#11
milikabdp Registered User Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Novi Sad Posts: 23	Found a few ntsc games, they look the same as pal ones. Ive noticed that i need flicker fix cond on my a1200, would that create this kind of a problem?

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

23 September 2017, 09:08	#12
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,534	Test with demo or game that uses interlaced mode and scrolls (for example http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=12475 or Pinball Illusions in interlace mode etc..), if it looks fine without any weird artifacts: it probably is usual progressive PAL/NTSC confusing TV's image processing logic.

09 October 2017, 05:22	#13
milikabdp Registered User Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Novi Sad Posts: 23	Did all that, looks fine. Could it be the game? I tested with runftumble mostly? Can anyone try the game and take a good look at scrolling? Thanks