Will this monitor work with an Amiga?

[Sanxion]

Originally Posted by idrougge

Then get a CRT TV of suitable size before they're all thrown away, or get a 20 inch PVM.

Then I would be obligated to acquire a TV licence...

[Photon]

I guess the discussion has taken other turns since, but:

Originally Posted by Sanxion

Hi all

I am thinking of buying a Mitsubishi Diamond Plus 200 for my Amiga - Inintend to get an RGB to VGA converter. My question is, will it work?

These are the specs for the monitor:

https://www.cnet.com/products/mitsub...itor-22/specs/

Thanks

1. No, normally VGA CRTs don't support 15kHz, but check specs or see if you can get a photo of the label on the back of the monitor. 50/60Hz just means power source. It looks like it might support 50Hz, but 15kHz is the clincher. That's what you need if you're just using a VGA converter (just a VGA connector soldered on the end instead of a Scart connector).

2. Even with scandoubler (15kHz -> 30kHz), VGA CRT monitors are much more flickery than a 15kHz CRT because of the thinner phosphor layer. Also, because the lines are doubled, pixels are extremely square. This is nice for text, but not for games.

3. Flatscreens have even more square pixels, the exaggerated saturation (contrast) make graphics look garish and incorrect, and adds ghosting, making all motions (for example in games) blurry.

Now, this is a games-centric perspective. If you already use VGA type modes on a graphics card like Indivision or RTG you would just connect a monitor and use it for Workbench.

So tell us more about what you will use it for and what you expect and we'll be able to help you better.

[Sanxion]

Originally Posted by Photon

I guess the discussion has taken other turns since, but:

1. No, normally VGA CRTs don't support 15kHz, but check specs or see if you can get a photo of the label on the back of the monitor. 50/60Hz just means power source. It looks like it might support 50Hz, but 15kHz is the clincher. That's what you need if you're just using a VGA converter (just a VGA connector soldered on the end instead of a Scart connector).

2. Even with scandoubler (15kHz -> 30kHz), VGA CRT monitors are much more flickery than a 15kHz CRT because of the thinner phosphor layer. Also, because the lines are doubled, pixels are extremely square. This is nice for text, but not for games.

3. Flatscreens have even more square pixels, the exaggerated saturation (contrast) make graphics look garish and incorrect, and adds ghosting, making all motions (for example in games) blurry.

Now, this is a games-centric perspective. If you already use VGA type modes on a graphics card like Indivision or RTG you would just connect a monitor and use it for Workbench.

So tell us more about what you will use it for and what you expect and we'll be able to help you better.

Thank-you for the response!

In short...Shadow of the Beast!

I want a monitor that does justice to the greatest Amiga game of all time.

(The picture is just too small on my 1438S)

[Photon]

If you want computer/console glory you definitely want a CRT monitor. TV will not be quite as sharp as a monitor, even with RGB input.

There are some with even better picture than the 14" beige ones.

Size I think is best up to 20". SoTB looks good on my 32" CRT TV, but then you have to put it a bit away from you and it's not quite as immersive I think.

A 20" Sony PVM with 600 lines and component input would be the ideal for me. And you can buy them for like 400 EUR if you're fast, but they are extremely heavy so if someone near you doesn't have one it's sort of a useless recommendation. :P

There's also Ikegami and JVC broadcast monitors, comparable to Sony BVM. Arcade monitors like Hantarex 19", but they come without a case (and are not 600 lines).

CRT TVs... well, definitely pick up a Trinitron one if it's cheap or free and you have the space but TV will always be second choice for me. If you keep an eye on local ads you may be able to pick up a CRT TV for free, and with a good 2.1 system or 90s HiFi stereo system, it could keep you happy until you find the dream monitor and you wouldn't have spent much money at all.

[Sanxion]

Originally Posted by Photon

If you want computer/console glory you definitely want a CRT monitor. TV will not be quite as sharp as a monitor, even with RGB input.

There are some with even better picture than the 14" beige ones.

Size I think is best up to 20". SoTB looks good on my 32" CRT TV, but then you have to put it a bit away from you and it's not quite as immersive I think.

A 20" Sony PVM with 600 lines and component input would be the ideal for me. And you can buy them for like 400 EUR if you're fast, but they are extremely heavy so if someone near you doesn't have one it's sort of a useless recommendation. :P

There's also Ikegami and JVC broadcast monitors, comparable to Sony BVM. Arcade monitors like Hantarex 19", but they come without a case (and are not 600 lines).

CRT TVs... well, definitely pick up a Trinitron one if it's cheap or free and you have the space but TV will always be second choice for me. If you keep an eye on local ads you may be able to pick up a CRT TV for free, and with a good 2.1 system or 90s HiFi stereo system, it could keep you happy until you find the dream monitor and you wouldn't have spent much money at all.

Great...so I am back where I started and with the same question...if I find a "crt monitor" which doesn't appear on the approved lists, what is the best method of determining its suitability as opposed to just buying it?!

Shadow of the Beast on a 32" CRT?!

[demolition]

Around here you can sometimes get 28" B&O MX CRT TVs for very cheap or even for free some times. They produce a very nice image with RGB SCART and have become quite popular for retro-gaming usage. If I had the space, I'd probably have one.

Originally Posted by Sanxion

Great...so I am back where I started and with the same question...if I find a "crt monitor" which doesn't appear on the approved lists, what is the best method of determining its suitability as opposed to just buying it?!

Search on Google or ask in a forum if anyone has experience with a specific model that you're looking at, just like you did with this thread.

[Photon]

Originally Posted by Sanxion

Great...so I am back where I started and with the same question...if I find a "crt monitor" which doesn't appear on the approved lists, what is the best method of determining its suitability as opposed to just buying it?!

Shadow of the Beast on a 32" CRT?!

Yes. (CRT TV, not 32" CRT monitor)

As for VGA CRT monitors (as in your OP), "nobody" uses them to play home computer/console games. Dreamcast and later consoles is fine I guess.

Flatscreen: Super sharp, silly saturation, motion blurriness, input lag.
VGA CRT monitor: Super sharp pixels, requires scandoubler, flickery
PAL CRT monitor: Perfect
PAL CRT TV: Second best to CRT monitor, available in larger sizes

It's possible to use all these display types with an Amiga.

[Sanxion]

Originally Posted by Photon

Yes. (CRT TV, not 32" CRT monitor)

As for VGA CRT monitors (as in your OP), "nobody" uses them to play home computer/console games. Dreamcast and later consoles is fine I guess.

Flatscreen: Super sharp, silly saturation, motion blurriness, input lag.
VGA CRT monitor: Super sharp pixels, requires scandoubler, flickery
PAL CRT monitor: Perfect
PAL CRT TV: Second best to CRT monitor, available in larger sizes

It's possible to use all these display types with an Amiga.

Right...the issue seems to hinge on the distinction between "VGA CRT" and "PAL CRT"...how do I differentiate between them?

I was recently bidding on two monitors and it would appear, I "fortuitously" lost both auctions!

Mitsubishi Diamond Plus 92 Diamondtron
Viewsonic Professional Series CRT monitor P220f

However, in an unusual turn of fate...the winner has withdrawn his interest and I have received a second chance offer...but...from what I have gleaned from all the invaluable information presented so far is to leave them alone!

Would that be a fair assessment?

[demolition]

Originally Posted by Sanxion

However, in an unusual turn of fate...the winner has withdrawn his interest and I have received a second chance offer...but...from what I have gleaned from all the invaluable information presented so far is to leave them alone!

Would that be a fair assessment?

Yes, they are both PC monitors and not well suited for Amiga usage.
They are too new and the fact that they can go to crazy vsync refresh rates tells you they are no good.. The Mitsubishi goes up to 160 Hz and the ViewSonic goes to goes to 180 Hz. They sound like good monitors, but not for Amigas and definitely not PAL/NTSC resolutions which is what games use.

Regards to the NEC 92VM, the fact that the word 'AccuSync' appears in some lists does not really tell you anything since this is the brand name NEC uses for all their monitors. Here is a thread with someone who has success with the 92VM and Amiga 15.6kHz:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=41151
So it could work, although there is no guarantee.

I would generally recommend you to look for a good quality large CRT TV if you have the space for it, preferable one that is not 100 Hz and also one that is not wide-screen. It could be a Sony Trinitron or a B&O MX if you can find one of those. Around here, B&O MX are relatively easy to find cheap although prices have gone up a bit lately as they have become popular in the retro-community. TVs won't work with higher resolutions though, so can only be used with PAL/NTSC through Amiga RGB.

A somewhat costly alternative is the OSSC which will convert the Amiga RGB signal into a 50 Hz DVI/HDMI signal for modern monitor/TV usage. It does provide a quite nice picture quality with very low latency, thus suited for games:
https://www.videogameperfection.com/...rce-converter/

[idrougge]

Originally Posted by Photon

Flatscreen: Super sharp, silly saturation, motion blurriness, input lag.

Flatscreens are only sharp when fed with a HD signal. A 1084 is sharper when displaying an Amiga screenmode than most flatscreens.

[idrougge]

Originally Posted by Sanxion

Right...the issue seems to hinge on the distinction between "VGA CRT" and "PAL CRT"...how do I differentiate between them?

If it has a foot and a VGA connector, it's a VGA CRT.

[Sanxion]

Originally Posted by demolition

Yes, they are both PC monitors and not well suited for Amiga usage.
They are too new and the fact that they can go to crazy vsync refresh rates tells you they are no good..

That is a brilliant comment..."too new"....these monitors must be around 15+ years old..but they are too modern for the mighty Amiga...

Oh well...just as well I didn't win the auctions!