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Old 24 September 2010, 23:24   #1
Fabie
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2 Button support not working

Hi Toni thanks for the new winuae version

but

the 2nd button on the game Aladdin don't works...and the 2nd button on the game BCKID also don't works

so... maybe the 2nd button on other games

can anyone confirms this?
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Old 25 September 2010, 10:27   #2
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabie View Post
Hi Toni thanks for the new winuae version

but

the 2nd button on the game Aladdin don't works...and the 2nd button on the game BCKID also don't works

so... maybe the 2nd button on other games

can anyone confirms this?
Works as designed. They don't work on real Amigas either without joystick with button pullups or a CD32 pad. (They did work in some older UAE version but it is was not correct)

This was already discussed here some time ago..
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Old 25 September 2010, 18:36   #3
Fabie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Works as designed. They don't work on real Amigas either without joystick with button pullups or a CD32 pad. (They did work in some older UAE version but it is was not correct)

This was already discussed here some time ago..
bckid needs button pullups
but Aladdin 2nd button works on my A1200 using a simple link (pin 9 + ground)
try it with any joystick and you will see...it will drop apples
so I think the new mode also is not correct
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Old 25 September 2010, 19:19   #4
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabie View Post
bckid needs button pullups
but Aladdin 2nd button works on my A1200 using a simple link (pin 9 + ground)
try it with any joystick and you will see...it will drop apples
so I think the new mode also is not correct
I used exact same reading code (as in Aladdin) on my real A1200 and it does not detect anything when using non-pullup mouse right button (I don't have 2 button joystick), mouse with pullups worked.

Something is missing. Are you absolute sure you used exact same version using exact same configuration?

(could someone move these posts to support.WinUAE)
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Old 25 September 2010, 19:43   #5
Fabie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
I used exact same reading code (as in Aladdin) on my real A1200 and it does not detect anything when using non-pullup mouse right button (I don't have 2 button joystick), mouse with pullups worked.

Something is missing. Are you absolute sure you used exact same version using exact same configuration?

(could someone move these posts to support.WinUAE)
I'm absolute sure
I have a custom made josytick...the 2nd button is simple pin 9 + ground
also I just tested the game with my mouse on my A1200 and works the right button on Aladdin
my mouse is commodore A1200 original...(no pullupus)

btw,

do you want that I test and look for other games that uses 2nd button and report if I found another issue?
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Old 25 September 2010, 19:52   #6
Toni Wilen
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I only want to know CRC32 of your Aladdin image
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Old 25 September 2010, 20:10   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
I only want to know CRC32 of your Aladdin image
sorry I don't understand very well your question
I can upload the game to the zone if you want...it is a hardisk installed (not whdload) it is prodigy crack hd with trainer
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Old 25 September 2010, 21:10   #8
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabie View Post
sorry I don't understand very well your question
I can upload the game to the zone if you want...it is a hardisk installed (not whdload) it is prodigy crack hd with trainer
Try some bootable version. I don't want any extra variables that HD installed games always includes, bootable disks without HD = easily reproducible environment.

EDIT: upload if it you want but you should have mentioned it being HD installed in first post..
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Old 25 September 2010, 22:25   #9
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Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Try some bootable version. I don't want any extra variables that HD installed games always includes, bootable disks without HD = easily reproducible environment.

EDIT: upload if it you want but you should have mentioned it being HD installed in first post..
Ok uploaded to the zone
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Old 25 September 2010, 22:49   #10
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Fabie, buy up a megadrive joypad. Aladdin natively support 2 buttons pads.
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Old 26 September 2010, 10:34   #11
Toni Wilen
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Ok uploaded to the zone
Can't get it to work, crashes soon after startup -> another reason why I hate these kind of "HD installs" when used for debugging..
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Old 26 September 2010, 19:10   #12
Toni Wilen
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(other posts were not moved for some reason, maybe they'll appear later.. EDIT: they are back now)

I just tested Aladdin AGA WHDLoad on my real A1200. Readme says 2nd button is fixed but it works exactly like on emulation, press once and it gets stuck. Works only with joystick or mouse with pullup resistors.

Either it is not fully fixed _or_ there are hardware differences. Note that current behavior matches HRM hardware description. (non-pullup button lines requiring output mode)

Easy test: Load Aladdin AGA WHD, set joystick option to "joypad: throw" (enables second button), start game, press second button.
Non-working: one "item" is thrown, both firebuttons stop working. Player still moves.
Working: multiple "items" can be thrown, fire still works.

If you don't have real 2 button joystick, put original Commodore mouse in port 2 and press right mouse button. (Third party mice may have pullups)

Last edited by Toni Wilen; 26 September 2010 at 19:42.
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Old 26 September 2010, 20:46   #13
Fabie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
(other posts were not moved for some reason, maybe they'll appear later.. EDIT: they are back now)

I just tested Aladdin AGA WHDLoad on my real A1200. Readme says 2nd button is fixed but it works exactly like on emulation, press once and it gets stuck. Works only with joystick or mouse with pullup resistors.

Either it is not fully fixed _or_ there are hardware differences
there are hardware differences between motherboards revisions regarding to 2nd button joystick
because on my A1200 2nd button on Aladdin works perfect and there are not pullups and no resistors on my joystick
my A1200 is rev 1.D1

I think you have tested the game on a REV 2B.....I remember there are issues with 2nd button on 2B motherboards....I had one and it had the 2nd button bug....2nd button joystick not worked on some games
I had also 1.D4 and haven't any bugs

so....I think it's better to return how winuae worked (2nd button joysick working on all games)
maybe that was discussed before but I think I'm right because the way winuae worked does not cause any problem and a more compatible winuae = better Amiga
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Old 26 September 2010, 21:05   #14
Toni Wilen
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Interesting.. I do have rev 2B.

But it isn't that simple... There is ALWAYS at least one program that expect specific behavior.. (It may not have been found yet but it is guaranteed to exist)

AFAIK A500s have same behavior as current WinUAE (and my A1200), so perhaps this is actually a hardware bug in rev1x A1200s..

I guess it must be some extra resistor somewhere because Paula chip is identical.

Real hardware difference needs to be found until I can properly implement in WinUAE. It wasn't right in older version, it only _appeared_ to work but it can't be right because it would break analog joysticks.. (if winuae method would have been converted to real hardware)

btw, WinUAE is not supposed to be "better" Amiga, something working better generally means (not yet found) compatibility issue..
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Old 26 September 2010, 21:36   #15
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It can't be board revision difference.

But it might be Paula revision specific, Paula IO pin may detect floating state as +5v (high) because it is undefined state and different types of IO ports may have different thresholds.

More testing needed..
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Old 26 September 2010, 21:53   #16
Fabie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Interesting.. I do have rev 2B.

But it isn't that simple... There is ALWAYS at least one program that expect specific behavior.. (It may not have been found yet but it is guaranteed to exist)

AFAIK A500s have same behavior as current WinUAE (and my A1200), so perhaps this is actually a hardware bug in rev1x A1200s..

I guess it must be some extra resistor somewhere because Paula chip is identical.

Real hardware difference needs to be found until I can properly implement in WinUAE. It wasn't right in older version, it only _appeared_ to work but it can't be right because it would break analog joysticks.. (if winuae method would have been converted to real hardware)

btw, WinUAE is not supposed to be "better" Amiga, something working better generally means (not yet found) compatibility issue..
I think you will not find anything Amiga'Standart regarding to 2nd button joystick

I remember also when I had an Amiga 600 the second button joystick worked perfect on the game Lionheart
however on the A1200 2nd button on Lionheart does not works....rev 1d or 1.d4 or 2B
so I always be astonished

the problem is that ppl behind commodore implemented some differences on motherboards and caused incompatibilities on 2nd button but they never take care of this because 2nd button joystick was not so important and few games use it

also developers tested the games on certain motherboards where 2nd button worked.....but ppl have different amigas and different motherboards

that's the problem

so if you find a way that 2nd button works on all games and do not disturb the analog joystick...will be wonderfull
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Old 26 September 2010, 22:10   #17
Toni Wilen
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Could you try following simple test program on your real A1200?

You'll see green/blue stripes, press joystick port second button. Screen turns green, do you get stripes back when you release the button or does green get stuck?

My A500, A1200 and A3000 all show green after pressing second button without pullup resistors. (which is exactly same behavior as in WinUAE)

Button with pullups will always return back to "stripe" mode. (button state does not get "stuck")
Attached Files
File Type: zip potgotest.zip (246 Bytes, 93 views)
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Old 26 September 2010, 22:12   #18
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Fabie please use whdload versions of Aladdin and BCkid. I have 2 1200 that have not the
same rev, and it works.

aladdin supports in STANDARD 2 buttons joypad with no hardware modification !
Same for BCkid...
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Old 26 September 2010, 22:20   #19
Toni Wilen
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"Standard" joypads usually have pullup resistors which fixes the problem completely.

We are talking about joysticks/pad without pullup resistors in button lines. (measure resistance between pin 9 and pin 7, it should measure open when button is not pressed, not something like 10Kohms)

EDIT:

If you are wondering why this is so important when all games that support 2 button joystick/pad work if it it has pullup resistors.

Problem is that there are SINGLE BUTTON only games (for example Dick Tracy) that work strangely if second or third button is enabled and pullup is connected! (no pullups = 2nd/3rd button is totally passive when not pressed, pullups = active and changes io-pin states)

Two buttons are mapped by default in emulation.. (At least 3rd button is not mapped by default..)

Last edited by Toni Wilen; 26 September 2010 at 22:40.
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Old 26 September 2010, 23:03   #20
Fabie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Could you try following simple test program on your real A1200?

You'll see green/blue stripes, press joystick port second button. Screen turns green, do you get stripes back when you release the button or does green get stuck?

My A500, A1200 and A3000 all show green after pressing second button without pullup resistors. (which is exactly same behavior as in WinUAE)

Button with pullups will always return back to "stripe" mode. (button state does not get "stuck")
ok

I tested the proggy on my A1200
running the proggy screen turns blue and green with stripes
pushed second button and the screen changes to green and remains green until I press mouse button
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