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Old 07 November 2017, 08:08   #21
ovale
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Originally Posted by Shatterhand View Post
This leaves the bigger platform left, but as you said, its probably drawn using all those 4 sprites as an attached 32 pixel wide 16 color sprites, multiplexed all over the screen.
If I see correctly the "bigger platform" is not transparent. So it is probably implement by just changing the BPLxPTRs for the background playfield.
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Old 07 November 2017, 14:32   #22
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Like I know what the fuck is "BPLxPTR"

That platform has different colors from the backfield and it scrolls both horizontally and vertically at a different speeds of the backfield, thus "erasing" it. I don't think it's part of the backfield at all, you would need to be redrawing part of the backfield constantly (and, again, its colors are different).

It's not transparent because if it was transparent the dissapearing of the other sprites at the same height would be evident.
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Old 07 November 2017, 14:57   #23
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I am, like you, just guessing...
Maybe my previous post got snowed under the bullshit conversation I sparked before, sorry! But I posted the sourcecode to Mr. Nutz, so you don't have to guess anything at all, just look at the source!

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First link has the sourcecode for T3 and Mr. Nutz.
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Old 07 November 2017, 15:31   #24
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the source is the one of the Megadrive version. The Source of Mr nutz for amiga is not in the archive.
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Old 07 November 2017, 15:54   #25
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Oh, damn, I thought it had BOTH there. I never compiled it.
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Old 07 November 2017, 16:47   #26
Shatterhand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akira View Post
Maybe my previous post got snowed under the bullshit conversation I sparked before, sorry! But I posted the sourcecode to Mr. Nutz, so you don't have to guess anything at all, just look at the source!


First link has the sourcecode for T3 and Mr. Nutz.
I don't know if I'd understand anything looking at source code, as I know nothing about 68k asm. I don't think I'd be even able to know where to start looking.

I had some classes about x86 asm on college and I barely remember anything
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Old 07 November 2017, 17:32   #27
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I too couldn't understand the source code even if it was available, since I don't understand Assembly.

I demand a Blitz Basic source.

Quote:
I think the scores / lives / gems/ etc are using 4 three colors sprites per scanline... which probably are the same 4 sprites channels used by the 32 pixels wide 16 colors hero. Notice he *never* goes at the same height of those panels.

This would actually leave 4 sprites left to use at any height of the screen.
I think you're right, they do in fact have 4 sprites free and this makes the columns easier to do.

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I really don't think they are multiplexing the same sprite over at the top on bottom screen *and* multiplexing the sprite at the background. From what I gather, multplexing sprites do use some DMA and it's better if you can avoid to use it.
Check out 1:24:45 in the video, there are two big vertical columns on screen at once; one above the horizontal column, and one below it, at different X positions. And in addition to these there are also two smaller columns on screen. So at least the two bigger vertical columns have to be done by multiplexing. But the smaller columns could indeed be the same sprite because their parts above and below the horizontal column have the same X positions.

Also take a look at another level at 31:20. The moving clouds have to use multiplexing, and they are 48 pixel wide, so one cloud needs 3 sprites. Also there is rain at 36:24, which requires some sort of multiplexing to fill the whole screen.

All this sprite multiplexing and the other tricks indeed have to use a lot of DMA time, and I think this is why the maximum enemy amount on screen at once seems to be three. But together with the tricks, animated backgrounds and fast scrolling, three enemies is still enough to create the illusion of "lots of stuff going on".
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Old 07 November 2017, 18:26   #28
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The 1:24:45 moment, you have two big vertical columns at different X positions but they never share the same Y position. They are reusing the same sprite at different scanelines which, from what I understand (and I may be wrong here) it's not the same as horizontally multiplexing the same sprite.

It's the same with the clouds on 31:20 (Never more than 1 cloud at the same scanline) and rain on 36:24 (Never more than 2 drops at the same scanline... even though I think they could had 4 drops on the same scanline if they wanted it) . They are reusing the same sprite on different scanlines, never multiplexing it horizontally.

Now I am kinda pissed because the game uses at least 2 tricks I had thought and wanted to try out on my next game

Anyway I still think I can do rain better than they did there

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I demand a Blitz Basic source.
I was thinking the same thing
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Old 07 November 2017, 18:57   #29
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What are you planning, Shatterhand? Let me in, I'll help you out like last time
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Old 07 November 2017, 21:49   #30
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What are you planning, Shatterhand? Let me in, I'll help you out like last time
I probably will... I am actually finishing a simplier project I actually begun before finishing Quasarius.. then I'll go and tackle this new one

This "new one" is basically what I begun building when I did this:

[ Show youtube player ]

but I was still too raw and was scratching my head trying to do simple things.

The experience of doing Quasarius and this other game I am right now finishing makes me feel a lot more confident to try something more complex now.

EDIT: Though I wasn't asking those questions about Mr.Nutz to be able to use it on my game, I was just curious about how this was done... I was amazed to see 4 layers of parallax on an Amiga game, but then now I think I understand how it was done
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Old 09 November 2017, 22:15   #31
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Hi, I second ovale.

From video is a really clever copper usage, modifing BPLxPTx in background layer for the horizontal column and BPLxPTx/COLOR in foreground layer for green cage.
Sprite x-multiplexing not needed for this effects.

My 2 cents

Last edited by ross; 14 November 2017 at 22:58.
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Old 10 November 2017, 00:34   #32
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I hope Codetapper will be dissecting this on his site.
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Old 10 November 2017, 14:09   #33
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Mr Nutz is a pure gem both technically and also regarding his playability.

I reaally cannot understand how can someone can say that this game is just "average" or "flawed", even in his level design.

Some people considers games like Superfrog or Zool among the best platformers on the Amiga but Mr Nutz really crush them in any way and is largely on par with consoles counterparts.

In fact, except Sonic, I'm not even sure there is many better platformers on MD and SNES (and the unreleased MD version lacks some Amiga features, like the zooming bosses and bonuses level).

The only little thing is the map section, but the platform part is so much astonishing that one can easily deal with that.

(and yes, Mr Nutz proves that a good Sonic port was feasible on the Amiga, like Shadow Fighter proves that SF2 was also feasible on the Amiga).
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Old 10 November 2017, 14:22   #34
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I personally don't think either Superfrog or Zool are the best platformers on Amiga, both are way overrated (Zool is very bleh, while Superfrog is nice but not as good as some people say).

For gameplay alone, I personally think, from that back of my head now, Arabian Nights, Ruff 'n' Tumble and James Pond 2 are probably the best platform games on Amiga. None of them are really that impressive on the technical side (Well, Ruff 'n' Tumble a little bit), but they are gems to play.

Mr. Nutz platforming is awesome , but the map levels are really very boring. They should have made it more like Super Mario World instead of doing a piss-poor clone of Zelda on those things.

But technically IMO its one of the most impressive games on the system, and I don't think it gets the credit it deserves on this area.
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Old 10 November 2017, 14:33   #35
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Ruff'n'Tumble is a great game, maybe lacking a parallaxe (but I doubt it was even possible, except maybe with AGA) but it isn't a "real" platformer for me, it's more a game like Turrican (a shooter ? A run'n'gun ? ).
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Old 10 November 2017, 14:48   #36
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I think the real shame was that people like CU Amiga's Tony Dillon gave it a completely ridiculous 59% while praising the sloppy James Pond 3 conversion which was even AGA and still sucked in every aspect when compared to Mr Nutz.
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Old 10 November 2017, 15:02   #37
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Clearly Dillon haven't played the game (I remember he was saying that the map sections are the biggest part of the game which is clearly not).
Dunno is there is a commercial reason for sacking this game and praise JP3 that was indeed pure shame on AGAs Amiga (and a shame in comparaison of consoles versions, a very bad publicity for commodore in fact, considering that those olds 16bits machines had far better versions then the supposedly ultra powerful CD32 bits console which was much more expensive. Just imagine a side by side comparaison in a shop....).

JP3 is a mystery. It doesn't seems AGA at all (like many games labelled AGA but working with any 2meg chip ram Amiga : Primal Rage, Jungle Strike, Dungeon Master 2, Burnin'Rubber, Shaq-Fu, etc...).
When you read the previews, the parallaxes are in the game. Millenium even say that only the ECS version will lack them, if they can manage to squeeze the game to fit in an 1MB Amiga !
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Old 10 November 2017, 15:26   #38
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looking the video of those beautifull sonic like stages, i asked myself if it could be done a new version of this game but without the boring map, just the arcade levels ??? Perhaps with whdload ??? or with the source ???
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Old 10 November 2017, 15:31   #39
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Codetapper sure could update his page with new articles, I like how he write about technical stuff in a way a person like me, who is not dev, could easily understood it.
For me Mr Nutz was good / very good game, but not awesome. Main cons were glide ability that was too hard to master so I avoid it as much as possible and map levels, they start simple but after some time I remember to spend more time in search for levels enter on that map rather than playing platform sections. Ruff and Tumble is just better game.
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Old 10 November 2017, 15:31   #40
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That's a good idea, but you'll have to change the gameplay a bit since, in my souvenir, gaining extra hit points and the flying hability is made only in the map section.
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