Problem with hardfile under winuae a500 emulation

_ThEcRoW · 01 October 2005, 17:01

Hello, i'm trying to set up a hardfile to work with winuae in the same manner as my real 500 would, but when i launch emulator, it doesn't recognize the hardfile as a drive, and the second try, if i reboot, it do a c++ runtime error, and goes back to windows.
I an aware that in kick 1.3, there is no hd support, and in the hd's of the 500 usually there was the controller of the disk that handled that, but, in winuae i had seen a hardfile running before under wb 1.3 with ks 1.3.
Is there a kickstart problem as i said earlier, or just a winuae bug?.
I'm trying to do that, because i always try and experiment with programs in my winuae setup before doing it in my real 500 for commodity purposes.
Hope anyone can help me. Thanks in advance.

Toni Wilen · 02 October 2005, 09:18

This is becoming a FAQ..

KS 1.3 can't autoboot/mount harddrive(s) without boot rom in harddrive controller that reads and initializes filesystem from drive's RDB. Not even if you use OFS. KS 1.3 does have OFS in ROM but FileSystem.resource is not available yet.. This limitation was removed in KS 2.0.

Directory harddrive works because it is basically rom-build in custom filesystem (from Kickstart's point of view)

There are two solutions:

1: Use regular hardfile and point FileSys path to L:FastFileSystem from WB1.3 disk.

2: Use "RDB"-mode hardfile and partition it with hdtoolbox (or any other similar program, use "uaehf.device" instead of "scsi.device") and add FastFileSystem to RDB. (Exactly like using real KS1.3 Amiga)

Crash is probably already fixed.. (but it has nothing to do with your not-booting problem)

_ThEcRoW · 02 October 2005, 15:23

Thanks for the reply Toni. I knew about the autoboot problems in ks 1.3 but once i saw that a directory as harddrive worked on ks 1.3, so i thought that a hardfile would work as well. Now it's all cleared. I want to setup a config like this because i like to do tests on a config based on my real 500 for testing and error free purposes, hehe. By the way, thanks for the responses, they are helpful.
One last question, is direct drive floppy support (with catweasel) on winuae coming in the next release of winuae? It's just i can't wait!!!!
Thanks!!!!

Toni Wilen · 02 October 2005, 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by _ThEcRoW

One last question, is direct drive floppy support (with catweasel) on winuae coming in the next release of winuae? It's just i can't wait!!!!

No. New advanced floppy mode is not implemented and documented (=need new driver and core update) yet so I can only wait..

For some reason I haven't heard anything from Jens for months.

_ThEcRoW · 02 October 2005, 18:23

Ok, so time will tell...

whiteb · 16 October 2005, 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

This is becoming a FAQ..

KS 1.3 can't autoboot/mount harddrive(s) without boot rom in harddrive controller that reads and initializes filesystem from drive's RDB. Not even if you use OFS. KS 1.3 does have OFS in ROM but FileSystem.resource is not available yet.. This limitation was removed in KS 2.0.

Sounds like if you wanted to use Fastfilesystem, you couldnt autoboot cos the driver was on disk, which it didnt know how to load, till it loaded the driver (if that makes sense), and then they moved fastfilesystem into ROM with KS2.04, along with common commands, like CD and stuff.

Doc Mindie · 19 December 2005, 10:26

Sorry for bumping......

But.... I've got an "a500" setup....the trouble is, when rebooting, the "a500" clims the Hardfile is corrupt, no matter what I do. Any ways around this?

Toni Wilen · 19 December 2005, 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Mindie

Sorry for bumping......

But.... I've got an "a500" setup....the trouble is, when rebooting, the "a500" clims the Hardfile is corrupt, no matter what I do. Any ways around this?

More info please. ("My car doesn't start, how do I fix it?")

Size of hardfile? How did you format it? Kickstart 1.3? Do you boot from existing HDF or WB 1.3 floppy? When does the message appear? Did you set up correct filesystem driver? (if using KS 1.3)

Doc Mindie · 19 December 2005, 16:02

okays.

I just made a 52MB hardfile, formatted with ks/wb 2 first, then changed to KS/WB 1.3 and reformatted as OFS.... Or rather, I just selected the "dh0:NDOS" and used initialize from the menu.

Where it counts the cylinders and stuff and ends, no error message. So I copy the WB13 floppy over to the hard-disk, "jects" the floppy, and reboots.

First thing that happens, is that the HD-light starts blinking like a madman on speed, and gives the error "Invalid block address xxx out of range" where xxx seems to be a random number between 2^32 positive and negative.

Like "always" under 1.3 it advices to use diskdoctor to repair the bitmap/bad blocks.

It does this, if I use the sheel command "Copy from df0: to hd0: all quiet" and with diropus 4.12, filemaster3, Dirwork 2.1 and just about everything

I've tried to use QuarterBack Tools to validate the HD, to no avail. Next reboot, same thing happens

I've tried to copy the FastFileSystem from WB13 to a directory on the hard-drive and pointed to that in the HD-config screen..... to no help, hardfile is still "Not valid" upon reboot.

Chuckles · 20 December 2005, 03:03

I seem to recall having heard that this is no longer necessary, but on my system the FastFileSystem file is located in the same directory as the Kickstart ROM images, and if it isn't there then my 1.3 config doesn't boot from the hardfile. The HD config screen should point to the hardfile, not to the FastFileSystem file or the directory it resides in.

Doc Mindie · 20 December 2005, 10:28

Well, you can specify the filesystem also in the HD-setup screen.

It's still "invalid bitmap" and "this disk isn't validated, use DiskDoctor" for every reboot though

Chuckles · 20 December 2005, 16:00

You might try creating a new hardfile and formatting it as FFS using KS/WB 2 again, copy whatever you need to the hardfile from WB 2 (including whatever startup sequence you want), put FastFileSystem in your ROMS directory and then in your 1.3 configuration, mount the hardfile. It shouldn't have to be an OFS formatted hardfile to work with KS 1.3 in WinUAE, and I suspect that re-initializing the drive from WB 1.3 may be the source of most of the problems. You mentioned using "Initialize" from the menu to reformat the drive, and I'm not sure which menu you're referring to, but if it is the standard Workbench menu for 1.3, the only formatting option provided by the OS was intended for use only with floppies. Hope this helps.

Doc Mindie · 20 December 2005, 19:31

thanks

Doc Mindie · 21 December 2005, 15:32

Thank you for your hint, Chuckles.

I've now been testing and tinkering a little, and I've found the fault.

I had the FastfileSystem (from wb1.3) in my ROMS drawer before I formatted under WB2. This seems (strange as it is) to have been the reason the hardfile was "corrupted"

I moved it to somewhere else, then formatted under WB2, copied WB13 over, changed the config to 1.3 instead of 2.0, copied the fastfilesystem back into ROMS and voila.

Perfect Harddrive for WB13

Thank you SO MUCH

From now on, I won't try to format with 1.3 again

Chuckles · 21 December 2005, 17:11

Good news! I wouldn't have thought that the presence of the FastFileSystem in the ROMS folder would have caused a problem, but most likely I had already formatted all of the hardfiles I've created under WB2 before I ever copied it into the ROMS folder, so I wouldn't have seen that problem occur. My understanding was that KS2+ understood FFS, while earlier versions did not, and putting FastFileSystem in the ROMS folder was sort of a workaround that WinUAE implemented to allow you to autoboot from an FFS hardfile. If you had a hardfile that was formatted as OFS, then I'd guess you could autoboot from it with KS1.3 without using a workaround. FFS is faster though, so that's preferable anyway. You can actually format a harddrive using KS/WB 1.3, but the process is more involved. As I recall you have to create mountlist entries for the partitions you want on the drive, mount them, and then format each of them. Those same mountlist entries would need to be saved onto the partition you intended to boot from, and your startup sequence would then need to mount them to make all of the partitions accessible. It's a lot easier to do what you did, believe me.

Doc Mindie · 21 December 2005, 19:37

believe me, I already know

Also from the time I had the dualkicked 1.3/3.1 A500 with A590 on the side.....I gave up booting the A590 from 1.3 and just used it to play 3.1-unfriendly games

01 October 2005, 17:01	#1
_ThEcRoW Amiga NetRunner Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Spain Age: 45 Posts: 941	Problem with hardfile under winuae a500 emulation Hello, i'm trying to set up a hardfile to work with winuae in the same manner as my real 500 would, but when i launch emulator, it doesn't recognize the hardfile as a drive, and the second try, if i reboot, it do a c++ runtime error, and goes back to windows. I an aware that in kick 1.3, there is no hd support, and in the hd's of the 500 usually there was the controller of the disk that handled that, but, in winuae i had seen a hardfile running before under wb 1.3 with ks 1.3. Is there a kickstart problem as i said earlier, or just a winuae bug?. I'm trying to do that, because i always try and experiment with programs in my winuae setup before doing it in my real 500 for commodity purposes. Hope anyone can help me. Thanks in advance.

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02 October 2005, 09:18	#2
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,502	This is becoming a FAQ.. KS 1.3 can't autoboot/mount harddrive(s) without boot rom in harddrive controller that reads and initializes filesystem from drive's RDB. Not even if you use OFS. KS 1.3 does have OFS in ROM but FileSystem.resource is not available yet.. This limitation was removed in KS 2.0. Directory harddrive works because it is basically rom-build in custom filesystem (from Kickstart's point of view) There are two solutions: 1: Use regular hardfile and point FileSys path to L:FastFileSystem from WB1.3 disk. 2: Use "RDB"-mode hardfile and partition it with hdtoolbox (or any other similar program, use "uaehf.device" instead of "scsi.device") and add FastFileSystem to RDB. (Exactly like using real KS1.3 Amiga) Crash is probably already fixed.. (but it has nothing to do with your not-booting problem)

02 October 2005, 15:23	#3
_ThEcRoW Amiga NetRunner Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Spain Age: 45 Posts: 941	Thanks for the reply Toni. I knew about the autoboot problems in ks 1.3 but once i saw that a directory as harddrive worked on ks 1.3, so i thought that a hardfile would work as well. Now it's all cleared. I want to setup a config like this because i like to do tests on a config based on my real 500 for testing and error free purposes, hehe. By the way, thanks for the responses, they are helpful. One last question, is direct drive floppy support (with catweasel) on winuae coming in the next release of winuae? It's just i can't wait!!!! Thanks!!!!

02 October 2005, 18:23	#5
_ThEcRoW Amiga NetRunner Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Spain Age: 45 Posts: 941	Ok, so time will tell...

19 December 2005, 10:26	#7
Doc Mindie In deep Trouble Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manchester, Made in Norway Age: 51 Posts: 841	Sorry for bumping...... But.... I've got an "a500" setup....the trouble is, when rebooting, the "a500" clims the Hardfile is corrupt, no matter what I do. Any ways around this?

19 December 2005, 16:02	#9
Doc Mindie In deep Trouble Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manchester, Made in Norway Age: 51 Posts: 841	okays. I just made a 52MB hardfile, formatted with ks/wb 2 first, then changed to KS/WB 1.3 and reformatted as OFS.... Or rather, I just selected the "dh0:NDOS" and used initialize from the menu. Where it counts the cylinders and stuff and ends, no error message. So I copy the WB13 floppy over to the hard-disk, "jects" the floppy, and reboots. First thing that happens, is that the HD-light starts blinking like a madman on speed, and gives the error "Invalid block address xxx out of range" where xxx seems to be a random number between 2^32 positive and negative. Like "always" under 1.3 it advices to use diskdoctor to repair the bitmap/bad blocks. It does this, if I use the sheel command "Copy from df0: to hd0: all quiet" and with diropus 4.12, filemaster3, Dirwork 2.1 and just about everything I've tried to use QuarterBack Tools to validate the HD, to no avail. Next reboot, same thing happens I've tried to copy the FastFileSystem from WB13 to a directory on the hard-drive and pointed to that in the HD-config screen..... to no help, hardfile is still "Not valid" upon reboot.

20 December 2005, 03:03	#10
Chuckles The Ancient One Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Kansas City/USA Age: 68 Posts: 685	I seem to recall having heard that this is no longer necessary, but on my system the FastFileSystem file is located in the same directory as the Kickstart ROM images, and if it isn't there then my 1.3 config doesn't boot from the hardfile. The HD config screen should point to the hardfile, not to the FastFileSystem file or the directory it resides in.

20 December 2005, 10:28	#11
Doc Mindie In deep Trouble Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manchester, Made in Norway Age: 51 Posts: 841	Well, you can specify the filesystem also in the HD-setup screen. It's still "invalid bitmap" and "this disk isn't validated, use DiskDoctor" for every reboot though

20 December 2005, 16:00	#12
Chuckles The Ancient One Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Kansas City/USA Age: 68 Posts: 685	You might try creating a new hardfile and formatting it as FFS using KS/WB 2 again, copy whatever you need to the hardfile from WB 2 (including whatever startup sequence you want), put FastFileSystem in your ROMS directory and then in your 1.3 configuration, mount the hardfile. It shouldn't have to be an OFS formatted hardfile to work with KS 1.3 in WinUAE, and I suspect that re-initializing the drive from WB 1.3 may be the source of most of the problems. You mentioned using "Initialize" from the menu to reformat the drive, and I'm not sure which menu you're referring to, but if it is the standard Workbench menu for 1.3, the only formatting option provided by the OS was intended for use only with floppies. Hope this helps.

20 December 2005, 19:31	#13
Doc Mindie In deep Trouble Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manchester, Made in Norway Age: 51 Posts: 841	thanks

21 December 2005, 15:32	#14
Doc Mindie In deep Trouble Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manchester, Made in Norway Age: 51 Posts: 841	Thank you for your hint, Chuckles. I've now been testing and tinkering a little, and I've found the fault. I had the FastfileSystem (from wb1.3) in my ROMS drawer before I formatted under WB2. This seems (strange as it is) to have been the reason the hardfile was "corrupted" I moved it to somewhere else, then formatted under WB2, copied WB13 over, changed the config to 1.3 instead of 2.0, copied the fastfilesystem back into ROMS and voila. Perfect Harddrive for WB13 Thank you SO MUCH From now on, I won't try to format with 1.3 again

21 December 2005, 17:11	#15
Chuckles The Ancient One Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Kansas City/USA Age: 68 Posts: 685	Good news! I wouldn't have thought that the presence of the FastFileSystem in the ROMS folder would have caused a problem, but most likely I had already formatted all of the hardfiles I've created under WB2 before I ever copied it into the ROMS folder, so I wouldn't have seen that problem occur. My understanding was that KS2+ understood FFS, while earlier versions did not, and putting FastFileSystem in the ROMS folder was sort of a workaround that WinUAE implemented to allow you to autoboot from an FFS hardfile. If you had a hardfile that was formatted as OFS, then I'd guess you could autoboot from it with KS1.3 without using a workaround. FFS is faster though, so that's preferable anyway. You can actually format a harddrive using KS/WB 1.3, but the process is more involved. As I recall you have to create mountlist entries for the partitions you want on the drive, mount them, and then format each of them. Those same mountlist entries would need to be saved onto the partition you intended to boot from, and your startup sequence would then need to mount them to make all of the partitions accessible. It's a lot easier to do what you did, believe me.

21 December 2005, 19:37	#16
Doc Mindie In deep Trouble Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manchester, Made in Norway Age: 51 Posts: 841	believe me, I already know Also from the time I had the dualkicked 1.3/3.1 A500 with A590 on the side.....I gave up booting the A590 from 1.3 and just used it to play 3.1-unfriendly games

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