27 September 2018, 14:36 | #181 | ||
son of 68k
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68010, 68020, 68030, 68040, 68060, all trap for it. But not 68080. And, I did use SR handling for some cpu detection. Perhaps 68080 does not crash on "normal" code (btw do you own one ? did you check all instructions ?). But winuae doesn't either. So yes we can compare 68080 and JIT, and JIT wins. You can not deny this based on E-UAE bugs. Quote:
Friend 1: "You have a crap hairstyle" Friend 2: "No it's fine." Friend 1: "I'm sorry, but you look stupid this way" Friend 2: "No i look perfectly ok" And friend 1 explains why in detail. Then friend 2 has no argument to say but does not change his mind either. Eventually friend 2 starts insulting friend 1. Now what to do ? |
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27 September 2018, 14:47 | #182 | |
Inviyya Dude!
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If you'd build a new 68K architecture design, there would be a lot of people hating your ideas as well. The difference is, we can have a discussion about the Apollo core because Gunnar actually created something that people can use and play with. While you and i didn't. |
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27 September 2018, 14:47 | #183 |
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change friend and let it go maybe ?
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27 September 2018, 14:49 | #184 |
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Personally, I'm getting for a better framerate in AB3D2. Oh, and the Freescape games with any luck.
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27 September 2018, 14:50 | #185 |
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nice :-)
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27 September 2018, 15:01 | #186 | |
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running development tools that allow me to do my job and earn my living.
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And 99% already possess such a device. Same goes for ports - why should you play a backported (often feature-wise downgraded) game on special hardware, if you got a device in front of you, that is capable of playing the original version. Just because you can? Don't get me wrong: there is a certain "coolness" factor to it and it is impressive that a 30 year old device can be upgraded to do so. But is there something it can actually do better? That is exactly the "problem" of this project: it is limiting itself to a small number of retro-fans. Majsta mentioned the potential number of 10.000 users - and that is absolute best case. A new compatible FAST 68k ASIC on a RasPi like board on the other hand could target a million users easily. (but they would need to concentrate on the CPU/FPU and leave the chipset out of it - that could be done in an additional small FPGA on such a board - no need to reinvent the wheel, MISTer already exists) |
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27 September 2018, 15:10 | #187 | |||
son of 68k
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But threads about that don't always end up in flame wars... This is what i tried to do by leaving that apollo team. But it's not that easy if you constantly run into his other friends and see them boasting like peacocks about what He did. Sometimes ports actually fix bugs of original software and may even add a few new features. |
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27 September 2018, 15:19 | #188 | |
Banana
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There are enough people actually making their own hardware now that it's not out of the question that someone who thinks they could do better should actually have a go at doing it. |
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27 September 2018, 15:20 | #189 |
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27 September 2018, 16:01 | #190 | |
Inviyya Dude!
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I, for one, usually don't spend time in threads about stuff that doesn't interest me . Virtually there is no chance that anybody left in the Amiga scene will give you your "modern work experience". Be it on OS or hardware side. This is "crappy 30 years hardware does some fancy new tricks with added hardware" as a hobby. For me and a couple of other folks, this is fun enough. If this is not enough for you or doesn't interest you or you are just in for the nostalgia, there is plenty of other stuff around you can do with your jolly old Amiga 500 (which I do as well). No need to hang out in threads about new hardware you don't like anyway. |
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27 September 2018, 16:08 | #191 |
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Actually Gorf has done some pretty good software for the ole Miggy. And sure, there is no denying: there is no point outside this little retro-bubble. Perhaps it will become meaningful some day as an 080 ASIC could kick some ass outside of this community. But the chances are slim that we will ever see such an ASIC. I always wonder why none of those tech billionaires fancies the 68k and would spend some millions to fund an ASIC just because it is possible...
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27 September 2018, 16:10 | #192 | |
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27 September 2018, 16:29 | #193 | ||||
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But that does certainly not mean, I am stopping my critical thinking on that subject. I am convinced 68080 (or any modern compatible 68k implementation) has great potential and would be a good addition to the x64/ARM duopoly. The current hype for the RISC-V architecture shows, that there is a longing for more competition throughout academia, business and users. The 68k ISA would e.g. provide a much higher code density compared to RISC-V and is much more convenient to code in assembler, which is still relevant for drivers or high-speed routines. (And it comes with a whole bunch of still useful legacy apps, systems etc. like of course Amiga, Atari or classic Mac.) Quote:
While AROS lacks many things (especially developers) it proves that even SMP and partial memory protection are possible. MorphOS and OS4 are suffering from the death of the PPC and need to change architecture - both would be easier to port back to 68K than to a little-endian cpu like x64 or ARM. Quote:
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27 September 2018, 17:59 | #194 | |
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Last edited by Don_Adan; 27 September 2018 at 18:08. |
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27 September 2018, 18:02 | #195 | |
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What is happening is that we keep getting these opinions repeated over and over and over, which are wrecking every single Vampire related thread on this forum. The issues the very vocal minority keep bringing up are completely unhelpful in the context of the topic. We honestly do not give a flying fart about the largely philosophical differences of opinion some of you have had with Gunnar and the Vampire team, that ship has long since sailed and at this point you're just yelling at the sky asking why it isn't green instead of blue. If you feel so strongly that the project has gone in the wrong direction, group up the like-minded people and come up with something better, or which more suits your personal philosophies. If you've got something useful or interesting to the topic at hand, please contribute, but just coming in and complaining that Gunnar insulted you, or that you think he's using the wrong type of FPGA, or that you hate the SAGA implementation and everything should just be OCS + 68K, or that you think it's too expensive, or that it should all be something different is just pissing in the wind. Projects change, scope changes, goals change, shit happens. Just let it be, it is what it is, and there are a lot of people who are quite happy with things as they are. If someone or another group comes up with something different that's interesting and cool, we'll go take a look at that and probably buy one of those too. |
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27 September 2018, 18:06 | #196 |
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Gorf, in particular, I completely agree that a new 68K compatible ASIC would be all sorts of awesome, with an FPGA to keep the chipset/etc on to keep things flexible, but that's not and never will be this project.
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27 September 2018, 18:09 | #197 | |
Banned
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27 September 2018, 18:16 | #198 | ||
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Thread closed, for now. I will decide the best way to move forward. If the most senoir person on the vampire team PM me, we will discuss the options. |
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