GRIND : a Doom-like, first person shooter for a500!

[Karlos]

This could be come the most scalable 2.5D engine on the Amiga. Considering the MVP of a basic A500 with the current feature set, it's not hard to imagine adding features to the core engine that are intended for faster CPUs (think 020), such as floor/ceiling textures, greater colour depth for faster 020/030 and 1x1 pixel modes for 030/50 or 040+ and even RGB framebuffer on RTG. You might even get away with high colour on AGA using one of the known HAM C2P modes.

The possibilities are there.

[malko]

@Tsak & team : truly amazing

[Tsak]

Thanks a lot guys

Originally Posted by Tsak

I guess it's time for a proper EAB update!
In the last couple months we had several exciting milestones completed, the most important of them being:

1) The engine now FULLY SUPPORTS AMIGA MUSIC!!!
We have added 2 brand new tracks (Menus and in-game) and -as expected- the game has received a massive boost in presentation, mood & atmosphere!
The two new tracks were made by me and Christoffer Magdalus, who recently joined us to help with the game's OST.
On the technical side it is worth noting that Remz managed to make the complete system to run as efficiently as possible, meaning the player poses no extra burden to performance, plus the tracks are far less costly than a typical mod (reaching p61 levels)!



2) The game now features a more elaborate and expanded particle effects system (with options to increase the amount of particles on beefier setups)!
Blood now properly (and plentifully) spills from enemies and barrels produce fiery debris when exploding! Overall, these additions have made shooting targets a lot more satisfying! The system currently applies only to hitscan attacks (and has some limitations) but we plan to expand and polish it further later on.



3) And last (but not least), we finally also have the COMPLETE weapons roster (including secondary weapon attacks via RMB) FULLY IMPLEMENTED!
Lets break this down a bit:

- The pistol now has 2 modes (you can switch between them by pressing 1): the default is the 'unlimited' mode which has infinite ammo but is slower and does low damage. And the 'loaded' mode which uses a new ammo type and has much more firepower and better speed (essentially being almost as lethal and effective now as the other weapons).
- All 4 weapons have received secondary attacks which can be triggered via RMB! These secondary attacks use the same ammo type per weapon and pack more firepower (or other strategic benefits) in exchange for faster ammo consumption. With this addition we have (in essence) doubled the options for the player, adding to the weapons roster a hand cannon, a super shotgun, a grenade launcher and a BFG!

The gif above showcases the following:

- Pistol unlimited
- Pistol, LMB shot
- Pistol, RMB shot (explosive round)
- Shotgun, LMB shot
- Shotgun, RMB shot (double rapid fire)
- Chaingun, LMB shot
- Chaingun, RMB shot (explosive grenade)
- Rocket Launcher, LMB shot
- Rocket Launcher, RMB shot (supercharged explosive cluster)

Requoting the update post so it doesn't get lost.

Originally Posted by samo79

We missing a nice plasma cannon :-D

Heh
Well, Plasma Cannon (Doom style) is definitely out of the question as we cannot just fill the screen with a gazillion projectiles as that would totally kill performance. And strategically wise, other weapons already fill that role. Adding more weapon sprites is also something I'm not keen to do cause we are already low on memory.

Originally Posted by Aladin

Cool. But why does the sky (the moon) move all the time and in a jerky way?

The moon has already been removed now (as I mentioned a couple posts above).

Originally Posted by Reynolds

Looks stunning. Please, pleeeeeease tell that the tracks are not chiptunes, but made with real samples!

Yup, all tracks are made with 'real' samples indeed. No chiptunes!
In fact many of the samples we use, also come from freshly recorded, physical instruments (like bass, guitars, overdrive/distortions, pads, drums e.t.c.).

For a first taste, you can listen to this track here: [ Show youtube player ]

I'm gonna be using this one for the game's intro sequence (which will be added at some point). I should also note here that the new tracks (which are already into the game) are much more ambient and atmospheric, enhancing the game's mood without being overly intrusive.

Originally Posted by Reynolds

Other thing is, will be there setting option for gamma? just because it looks a bit dark for my taste.

Not sure about that. Perhaps. The current gfx are intentionally dark as this is supposed to be a night-time set. Other sets will be brighter.

Originally Posted by Reynolds

Are we getting closer to a release date, in the near future?

We're getting closer day by day
But there's still a TON of work to do. Important/critical features like being able to play level after level, loading and saving, better ram management and correcting many of the old outstanding bugs and glitches are things that still need to be done. And then we need more textures and sets, more levels/maps, more enemies, more music tracks, better menus and presentation etc. etc. etc.

Originally Posted by Whitesnake

I think multiple floor heights are still to come last time I checked?

I cannot promise variable floor heights at this point. As I've been repeating, this feature will ONLY be considered once all the other critical features are in place and if we have enough time left. And this if the current coding team feels confident enough to tackle it (of course).

It's a tag of war at this point between having a finished game within a reasonable time frame (see above for all the stuff we've yet to complete) and perpetually kicking the can down the road.

Originally Posted by Whitesnake

I wonder if it would be possible to add something similar to the chase cam from Doom later on? It basically puts the player sprite in front and pulls the view back a little bit to give you a 3rd person experience.

That's unlikely (for us to add this), but not undoable. The engine is highly moddable so people that like this feature, might be able to do something similar, perhaps for a different project. Honestly I can see this engine be used for a gazillion other stuff. 3rd person games, something with RPG elements or a Dungeon Crawler, Racing games etc. The sky is the limit!

But obviously all these are -way- outside the scope of what we do currently.

[abu_the_monkey]

Top Stuff

[Karlos]

Originally Posted by Tsak

Yup, I have already removed that.
This was just an experiment which I hadn't bothered to take out (looked nice in stills). Up until recently.

If you really want to go nuts, you could have a fixed, rotation dependent backdrop that's just the moon and mountains. You could then have a cloud layer that scrolls over the top, by treating one of the colour indexes of the cloud as transparent. You get some overdraw but if the clouds are relatively few it shouldn't matter that much.

[vulture]

@Tsak

That's an amazing update!

[CCRider]

Originally Posted by Reynolds

Looks stunning. Please, pleeeeeease tell that the tracks are not chiptunes, but made with real samples!

I'd rather have all Amiga games that made you choose Music OR sfx have chiptunes instead... Having to choose between one or another kills the mood completely, IMO.

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by CCRider

I'd rather have all Amiga games that made you choose Music OR sfx have chiptunes instead... Having to choose between one or another kills the mood completely, IMO.

Agreed. And on that note I should point out that Grind supports both Music AND SFX at the same time

[Cylon]

Originally Posted by CCRider

I'd rather have all Amiga games that made you choose Music OR sfx have chiptunes instead... Having to choose between one or another kills the mood completely, IMO.

I'd rather have all games asked for more RAM to do both (if possible).


Would have got more ppl to upgrade their machines beyond 512k/512k.

[Adropac2]

cool music track though possibly a little too loud on the snare?

[NovaCoder]

Looking good

very polished!

Any plans for an AGA enhanced release after this one?

[Whitesnake]

Originally Posted by Tsak

I cannot promise variable floor heights at this point. As I've been repeating, this feature will ONLY be considered once all the other critical features are in place and if we have enough time left. And this if the current coding team feels confident enough to tackle it (of course).

It's a tag of war at this point between having a finished game within a reasonable time frame (see above for all the stuff we've yet to complete) and perpetually kicking the can down the road.

No worries, I don't think anyone is in a rush (waiting wise). My only concern is that without floor heights you end up with only maze like Wolfenstein 3D maps which can really limit map creativity. I remember when Gloom came out people were calling it a Doom clone but you can only call a game a Doom clone when it has multiple floor heights, like Alien Breed 3D, Breathless, Fears.

Interestingly with floor heights I think Grind would look like Doom on SNES. (Which had its source code released not so long ago)

[Karlos]

The game already has variable height ceilings it seems, so there's probably a way to get it working out. I think one of the challenges of varying height floors is the potential for not being able to see edges where the floor colours are the same. That issue affects the 2MB version of TKG in places too. But by far the biggest issue there is, well, everything else.

[Whitesnake]

Originally Posted by Karlos

The game already has variable height ceilings it seems, so there's probably a way to get it working out. I think one of the challenges of varying height floors is the potential for not being able to see edges where the floor colours are the same. That issue affects the 2MB version of TKG in places too. But by far the biggest issue there is, well, everything else.

You would typically have a vertical texture to show that.




SNES DOOM has no textured floors or ceilings.

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by Adropac2

cool music track though possibly a little too loud on the snare?

Considering the kick is already a lot louder, I feel the snare is ok balanced within the mix.
But then again such details are very subjective. More often than not, the system used for listening can influence a lot the balance itself. Also because there is not much room for mastering with mods (plus hard panning).

Originally Posted by NovaCoder

Looking good

very polished!

Any plans for an AGA enhanced release after this one?

There are already plans to support AGA features with this release
But probably nothing as drastic as -f.e.- having assets with more colors though (as that would require a lot extra work). A later enhanced version is something I wouldn't rule out either.

Originally Posted by Whitesnake

No worries, I don't think anyone is in a rush (waiting wise).

Almost every month I get random comments asking for a release date!
But besides that it is also a personal choice.

I could also flip this argument on its head. If none is in a rush, then -surely- they could wait for this feature to come in a second installment of the game. Correct?

Originally Posted by Whitesnake

My only concern is that without floor heights you end up with only maze like Wolfenstein 3D maps which can really limit map creativity. I remember when Gloom came out people were calling it a Doom clone but you can only call a game a Doom clone when it has multiple floor heights, like Alien Breed 3D, Breathless, Fears.

Well, people tend to reduce the difference between Doom and Wolfenstein 3D maps/engine to a single factor : floor heights. But the reality is much more nuanced. Here are a few other things that massively affect map design:

1) Wall angles : Wolf 3d has only 90 degree walls, which means you can only do square or rectangle rooms. On Doom -on the other hand- there is no restriction in angles, so you can do any shape.

2) Internal room geometry : Subsequently the above restriction also has a massive impact on floor and ceiling textures (or colors) and the internal geometry within a room. In Wolf f.e you have a single color for floors and ceilings per room, and that's it! While in Doom you can split rooms however you like and apply different textures, create shadows or spots with light and shadows, draw carpets and pathways, create lakes, patches with grass, whatever.

3) Wall heights : In Wolf 3d you have a single -fixed- height for all walls. This is another obvious massive restriction.

4) No outside areas : All maps and rooms in Wolf 3d are indoors.

Now try and think Doom with none of the above features, only with variable floors. It wouldn't be too much different vs Wolf 3D in terms of map creativity, wouldn't it?

So all the above are things that Grind can already do. F.e. we can make rooms of any shape and have walls of any angle. We can have rooms with different ceiling heights, we can create tunnels, arches, pillars, roofs. We have outside areas and buildings or structures with different heights. We can create pseudo objects of any shape within each room, f.e. a labyrinth of crates or round tanks, or shapes hanging from the ceiling. We can draw shadows to floors and ceilings, create dirt roads, carpets and other details and freely apply different colors. We can even create real 3D holes and gaps to floors.

Most of the above are features that are missing fro Gloom (or Genetic Species f.e.), so it is clear that these engines are way more restricted. In fact, from all the know Amiga fps engines, only AB3D (and TKG) actually meets all the above criteria (plus variable floors). All the others lack something. Breathless and Fears can only do 90 degree walls f.e.

[abu_the_monkey]

loving your work

just one question, are there any plans to offer redefinable controls?
I can get on with WASD controls, but, prefer to use rmb to walk forward.

[d4rk3lf]

Great updates Tsak

To add to Tsak comments about various height... KK actually released patreon video where Dread Engine is used for Doom level 1 (with no enemies), and it looked very good to me.

So engine is definitely capable of various height.

But on the other side... I understand what a hassle could be to implement that now, whilst so deep into development.
Maybe Grind 2.... err.. Grind ²

[Karlos]

Zooming in on the weapon animations, the pixelling is superb, absolutely mesmerising.

[DisasterIncarna]

So we have a Wolfenstein game thats a little Doom(ish), now we just need some clever music god to convert the Mechanism Eight ScreamTracker3 mod by Necros (Andrew Sega) for some UT99 music awesomeness and you have 1 weird mix of FPS shooters rolled into 1.

[pixie]

Originally Posted by karlos

zooming in on the weapon animations, the pixelling is superb, absolutely mesmerising.

+1