EAB/Lemon Super League 2017: Round 11 - Golden Axe

[Predseda]

Fortunately it is not my problem as I do not think I would go through the whole game without a hit

[lifeschool]

Thats a tricky one. I know Graham is rather busy at the moment, but his general preference is often "Its too late to change the scoring now".

I agree there is not enough time for people with physical capture devices to be able to power them up, switch to camera mode, align a clear shot and take a photo.

On the other hand, if a player had zero hits or 1 death by the final screen, they could press the P key and then power up their camera. Or during the long ending animation, and to get ready when it goes blank after that? This might only affect a small number of people, or it could affect 6 people by the end of the round.

I think working out complex formulas isnt my bag, and I'd rather see one extra point awarded based on the submission date of scores, so Steef would get first place by reaching 100% first.

Im open to suggestions but Im not optimistic it will lead to a rule change at this stage.

[liviux76]

I've just played once with this game so far and I don't think I'll be able to reach the end with the highest score so, probably, I won't be affected by this decision...

However... I remember well that we already had a game this year (Benefactor) with many people together at first place and that wasn't a problem at all: all of them got 20 points without considering the time they played, how many times they "died" or tried a level, etc...

I think that was fair enough.

[john4p]

Originally Posted by Predseda

Fortunately it is not my problem as I do not think I would go through the whole game without a hit

You can take ~4 hits before losing a bar so it's not that extreme.

Originally Posted by lifeschool

I think working out complex formulas isnt my bag, and I'd rather see one extra point awarded based on the submission date of scores, so Steef would get first place by reaching 100% first.

We (Harry, I and others) already agreed in a previous round that we don't want that in the league (only in the Knockout if there are no other tie-breakers possible).

Originally Posted by liviux76

However... I remember well that we already had a game this year (Benefactor) with many people together at first place and that wasn't a problem at all: all of them got 20 points without considering the time they played, how many times they "died" or tried a level, etc...

I think that was fair enough.

Absolutely.

[lifeschool]

Then its as you were Gentlemen, nothing to see here. I'm fine with ties.

[Predseda]

For me anyone who reach the maximum score (in this case 100%) is winner and deserves the 1st place and full ammount of points. It is possible to have more players share the same place, isn't it?

[Graham Humphrey]

Yes, that is the 'standard' setting, as you will see if you check the scoreboard now. Bit of a shame there is a maximum but from what has been said here there probably isn't a viable way round it and everyone seems pretty laid back about it anyway so all good.

I would like to get involved but Monday night I turned on my 14" TV and... it's died so I need to get that sorted one way or another ASAP.

[Predseda]

Originally Posted by Predseda

For me anyone who reach the maximum score (in this case 100%) is winner and deserves the 1st place and full ammount of points. It is possible to have more players share the same place, isn't it?

(now I see: its demotivating. Once a player reach a maximum, there is not any need to try better until the end of the round).

[steef-online]

Originally Posted by Predseda

(now I see: its demotivating. Once a player reach a maximum, there is not any need to try better until the end of the round).

That's what I think is a shame. I really think this is a very nice game and I feel there's still room for improvement of scores. Improving the level scores by using moves which earn more points and finishing the game with as few deaths as possible. It's a shame that once you reach 100.0 there is no incentive to play the game again.

I think using the formula to calculate the scores above 100.0 is not that difficult. I also think that making a screenshot of the level scores for those who reach 100.0 won't be a big problem, since there is plenty of time to (prepare) to take the picture. But I also feel there is an extra risk here and I won't like it if someone who reached 100.0, wasn't able to take a screenshot of scores which are temporarily shown. For this reason Outrun Europa was dismissed as a competition game on Lemon64 a while ago and I think rightly so.

It is a bit of extra work to calculate the scores above 100.0 and there is the issue of deciding what to add for a clean run; that's a bit arbitrary.

All in all, I think it's a shame to have ties, but I think that is primarily caused by a flaw in the game and not by what we decide within this competition round. Reaching 100.0 was made the holy grail by the developers of the Amiga-version, hereby diverging from the source material. I can thus live with the choice to limit our scoring to that goal and enabling a tie for those who reach the maximum score.

[john4p]

Lifeschool found an Amiga 2 player longplay where the scoring went above 100.0 (like Arcade and Genesis versions):



[ Show youtube player ]

So there either was a rerelease where they fixed the scoring or the scoring just isn't capped for player 2.
We could try to find the fixed version or maybe play as player 2 (killing player 1 right away).

[steef-online]

I just tried to play with 2 players and killing player 1. That is a bit of a chore, I think. At least, in the way I tried to do it. It takes quite a few hits to kill another human player and in the meanwhile enemies start to pop up and that makes the fight really hectic and a bit unpredictable, because it's hard to anticipate when an enemy will attack you or the defenceless player 1. Another thing is that when you take to long killing player 1, two black skeletons will appear as punishment for taking to long to advance (which was also implemented in the arcade version). These are pretty hard to kill and it's a shame that this adds another hurdle to take just for killing the other human player

Thus, you will probably loose lifes before you even start your game. Or is there a button to press to immediately kill player 1?

If there really is another version of the Amiga-game, that would be great! But how do we find that out?

[john4p]

Originally Posted by steef-online

I just tried to play with 2 players and killing player 1. That is a bit of a chore, I think. At least, in the way I tried to do it. It takes quite a few hits to kill another human player and in the meanwhile enemies start to pop up and that makes the fight really hectic and a bit unpredictable, because it's hard to anticipate when an enemy will attack you or the defenceless player 1. Another thing is that when you take to long killing player 1, two black skeletons will appear as punishment for taking to long to advance (which was also implemented in the arcade version). These are pretty hard to kill and it's a shame that this adds another hurdle to take just for killing the other human player

Thus, you will probably loose lifes before you even start your game. Or is there a button to press to immediately kill player 1?

Thanks for testing this. Unfortunately there's no command to instantly kill player 1. Okay, so that's no option. :|

Originally Posted by steef-online

If there really is another version of the Amiga-game, that would be great! But how do we find that out?

Looked at various sites and there's only the Defjam crack. Maybe the original uncracked version works differently?


edit: The WHDLoad description for Golden Axe says: 2015-04-29 improved: Golden Axe (Virgin) supports Arcade SEGA Hits version

So there was an Arcade SEGA Hits version.

[john4p]

Here's now a clean run so the tie feels fair:

[ Show youtube player ]

[steef-online]

Congratulations! Very nicely done, john4p!

What method do you use to make a gameplay video? I think that's a great idea. Do you use the capturing tool within WinUAE? I've tried that yesterday and I couldn't get WinUAE to capture it in the same resolution as I see it on my screen. Sometimes very compressed in one direction or the view becomes very small. I just can't seem to get the settings right.

[john4p]

Yes I use the inbuilt WinUAE video capturing with x264vfw codec, "capture before filtering" is ticked, the other output checkboxes are unticked.
After recording I crop the image and upscale the video to 720p or 1080p (depending on epicness of the game ) in VirtualDub (free tool).

[steef-online]

Thanks! I didn't check "capture before filtering" so that might help. I will try that.

Your next post will be #3.000! Nice!

EDIT: My next one will be #10! That's also quite nice!

[john4p]

Originally Posted by steef-online

EDIT: My next one will be #10! That's also quite nice!

Happy anniversary!

[lifeschool]

I posted what I found out about the scoring methods over on Lemon, and it seems in two player mode, each player is ranked out of 200%.

It may be a shame that the top players cant get any further in one player mode, but this is how we play the games, not by using 2 player mode. It was the same situation with Blocky Skies and many people were happy to share 100%. The scoring wont be changed, so may as well sit back and relax until Sunday, when we find out which two games we will play next.

[liviux76]

379

a small improvement...

[nobody]

36.7