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Old 12 July 2007, 15:41   #61
girv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmuChicken View Post
... for some reason I cant even get into the info screen! ... but I set it to NTSC as default ... gah... this is my problem... my curse
You are the unexperienced fool!! This problem is not existing on any computerer that I try so you are not can be seeing it!! Amiga was designed in the US States of American so PAL mode on Amiga is an imagination and all games are NTSC. NTSC games are using less chipram because of the smaller screen lines at 60 hertz so when you try to run in the PAL modes you are running out of chipram very quickly. Even more when WHDLOAD is used! Easy! It is simple physics of display equipment! I am known this since early days in arcades! Even my dog is knowing this and he is the stupid even for dogs!!!


@StingRay: will that keep you going until the wisdom of laser reappears?
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Old 12 July 2007, 15:48   #62
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Thanks Girv, your "laser emulation" really made my day.
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Old 12 July 2007, 15:52   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by girv View Post
Even my dog is knowing this and he is the stupid even for dogs!!!
Quote of the day.
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Old 12 July 2007, 16:03   #64
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I liked "PAL mode on Amiga is an imagination" myself
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Old 12 July 2007, 16:09   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by girv View Post
This problem is not existing on any computerer that I try so you are not can be seeing it!!
I dunno why but I find computerer bloody hilarious.
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Old 12 July 2007, 16:20   #66
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For some reason so do I. I didn't even notice the spelling before.

Computerer...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
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Old 12 July 2007, 18:50   #67
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Just going back to the Chip Ram issue and what Bippym said. I agree 100% in regards to a game not loading if its allocated itself with 1.9meg of Chip Ram and if only 1.8 is available, it will not load. I had many a game not load due to this case, with Capital Punishment being a prime example. Fast Ram certainly helps ( Overkill is an example in this case ) but again, not enough Chip Ram and the game just wont load.. Nothing to do with slowing it down.

In a nutshell -: If it loads with only 2meg chip available then your in luck \

If it wont load through workbench, bring everything down to 4 colours and remove the backdrop.

If it wont load like that, then boot with no startup - assign the game disks and directories then execute the game.

But of course, the main issue here is slow game performance ???? .... I run Zool 2 with my own 030 with my Workbench running in 128 colours and 32 of Fast Ram on an A1200 and it loads every time with no slowdown.

Fast Ram is a bonus if it runs and it "will" smooth some games out.

Last edited by blade002; 12 July 2007 at 18:59.
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Old 12 July 2007, 19:58   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blade002 View Post
Just going back to the Chip Ram issue and what Bippym said. I agree 100% in regards to a game not loading if its allocated itself with 1.9meg of Chip Ram and if only 1.8 is available, it will not load. I had many a game not load due to this case, with Capital Punishment being a prime example. Fast Ram certainly helps ( Overkill is an example in this case ) but again, not enough Chip Ram and the game just wont load.. Nothing to do with slowing it down.
Also T-Zero is very greedy for chip memory (not WHDLoad-related I know), even if I turn off all my backdrops etc. I still have to boot with no startup-sequence to get the sodding thing to run.

Quote:
But of course, the main issue here is slow game performance ???? .... I run Zool 2 with my own 030 with my Workbench running in 128 colours and 32 of Fast Ram on an A1200 and it loads every time with no slowdown.

Fast Ram is a bonus if it runs and it "will" smooth some games out.
Yes, but I'm talking about 040, which accesses chip RAM slower than 030s do, which (I think) is why Zool 2 and Apidya suffer these problems, no amount of fast RAM, or reducing colours on Workbench etc. is going to help with that.
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Old 12 July 2007, 22:45   #69
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There's also the problem of WHDLoad slaves inserting blitterwaits for very fast machines. On slow chipmem machines, it slows down the game.

I had to make a CUSTOM1 switch to disable blitter waits, whereas on my 68060 without blitter waits there were gfx glitches.
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Old 13 July 2007, 03:43   #70
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Apidya#Kaiko#in progress: 20% : update/rewrite of Mr. Larmer & Harry's installer



There are many things to fix, so I think it is easier to re-do this as a new slave but helped a lot by the existing patch source.

@jotd: do you mean adding a wait directly after the bltsize write (instead of before the first bltXXX register access) will slow down games on machines where the chipram (and therefore the blitter) is slow? I never thought of that!
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Old 13 July 2007, 04:33   #71
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I suppose jotd meant general blitwait patches. Imagine f.e. a big sinescroller which eats up a lot of the available rastertime, it works well on an A500 and no blitwaits are needed. Now, to make it 0x0 compatible you'd have to add the blitterwaits and the sinescroller won't run in 1 frame anymore.
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Old 13 July 2007, 11:16   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by girv View Post
Apidya#Kaiko#in progress: 20% : update/rewrite of Mr. Larmer & Harry's installer
Cheers girv, will be good to get this updated
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Old 13 July 2007, 11:22   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StingRay View Post
I suppose jotd meant general blitwait patches. Imagine f.e. a big sinescroller which eats up a lot of the available rastertime, it works well on an A500 and no blitwaits are needed. Now, to make it 0x0 compatible you'd have to add the blitterwaits and the sinescroller won't run in 1 frame anymore.
Yes, something like that.

Some games were designed for A500 and used a lot of blits in a row.

... code
move.w d0,$dff058
... code
move.w d0,$dff058

@girv: it's better to insert the blitwait BEFORE the write to dff058 because it's less likely you'll have to wait. If you insert it after, the active wait will be longer. But anyway, now I use SNOOPOCS & CHK and it tells me where to wait.

I don't think there is any problems if there are few, big blits.

The problem is (I'm not an expert on blitter operations) on slower machines, some programs using a lot of small blits in loops, and very close one to each other.
If you insert blitwaits, even if the blitwait does not wait because it is over, you still enter the loop, and it slows down the program anyway, just by calling the blitwait code (most of blitwait code do some tst.b $bfe001 stuff to be sure to read non-cacheable area and spend some more time in the loop, so the blitwait code, even if it does not loop, costs some CPU power).

On the contrary, on WinUAE with JIT on, some WHDLoad blitter fixed programs which run OK on the faster amigas still have gfx glitches because of JIT and very fast chipmem => you'll have to add more blitwaits for WinUAE usage!
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Old 13 July 2007, 17:31   #74
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Some games you simply can't 100% fix. Elysium by Sanity is one such case. Put all blitter waits in, and two of the effects are ruined, don't put them in and they are ruined.

Might be wise to have an option of having blit waits activated or deactivated.

That is being the sensible approach so that user can set it limits on computerer, even my grandmother is known this is right!
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Old 13 July 2007, 18:41   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
Might be wise to have an option of having blit waits activated or deactivated.
Or a finer grained control, so you can have them:
- off
- on, simple short loops for slower machines
- on, longer loops with extra non-cacheable reads for faster machines
- more?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
That is being the sensible approach so that user can set it limits on computerer, even my grandmother is known this is right!
Aggh, the Laser Brain Disease is spreading!
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Old 13 July 2007, 20:54   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
Elysium by Sanity is one such case. Put all blitter waits in, and two of the effects are ruined, don't put them in and they are ruined.
I think even these can be fixed but it won't be trivial as it would require a great deal of recoding. What I am thinking of here is a blitter queue, triggered/handled in the VBI. Interrupt occurs once a blit is finished, this way you won't have to add additional blitterwaits. But as said, it requires a great deal of recoding so it's possibly not worth it.
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Old 20 July 2007, 02:44   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmuChicken View Post
damnit! the apidya whdload slave on my amiga changes the signal into PAL!
It ain't the slave, the game sets PAL mode itself. This and many other problems are being addressed
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Old 23 July 2007, 03:13   #78
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Well this one is a can of (laser spitting) worms alright. Five levels, with guardians, bonus games and subscreens all needing patched separately. Me and my big mouth

The major problems are with copperlists and (lack of) blitter waits, but the menu through to the end of level 2-1 & including the angel & demon catching subgame now work perfectly with no WHDLoad hits. Also all levels 1-5 have infinite lives, credits, invulnerability and skip level trainers.

No hiscore or option saving yet, but it will come.

Whats the deal with the bonus games I've heard mentioned? I caught the little angel figure released by the caterpillar guardian at then end of Stage 1-1 and got sent to the subgame, but are there any others ? If so, how do I get to them? They'll probably need patched
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Old 23 July 2007, 10:59   #79
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There's one at the big fish boss at the end of Stage 2-3 - you have to go in its mouth.
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Old 23 July 2007, 11:24   #80
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Cheers

Seems there are a few more at least:
http://avians.net/~hawthorn/apidya/bonus.html

MORE patching
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