Outrun Port using Lotus engine? Possible? - Page 5

LongLifeA1200 · 22 May 2019, 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by 005AGIMA

I've always said the Lotus games pointed out what Outrun on Amiga could/should have been like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 005AGIMA

The point would be to make a GOOD version of outrun (not arcade perfect) that runs on what most gamers had, which was an A500 with 512k of ram, or perhaps 1mb, and games for MOST were loaded from floppy.

Unless I grew up in some weird alternative poverty stricken universe, and everyone else here had a machine modded to the nines at the age of 15?

Quote:

Originally Posted by vulture

Good talk....

I'd like to know what's so hard to comprehend.

You're not modding your A500. You're buying *theoretically* a cartridge of similar value to AGES/Nintendon't.

You can't get what you're asking for without this medium.

Just because floppy disks were cheaper, doesn't mean cartridges was never an option for the A500.

I don't know what else to say, except; objections to the use of a ROM cartridge on the A500 is...

britelite · 22 May 2019, 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongLifeA1200

Secondly, using the MAXIMUM amount (10Mb, as you say) of ROM space -today- wouldn't cost that much as it did back then - so why NOT encourage its use for new projects?

Maybe because it makes zero sense in 2019, why waste money on producing cartridges when there are RAM expansions available which pretty much offer the same exact possibilities, but without breaking compatibility with other models. If you could expand Chip RAM to 8MB with cartridges (with the Custom chipset being able to access it), then you'd have a point.

And who actually cares about something being "cheating"? If you want to make a game running on cartridges, then please be my guest, no one's stopping you. But currently you're arguing for something that pretty much no-one is interested in pursuing, and will therefore never amount to anything anyway...

It's sad to see the weird inferiority complex that has struck the Amiga crowd in the past few years, with a lot of people begging for arcade/dos/whatever conversions just because "OMG OMG OMG WE MUST SHOW AMIGA IS BEST OMG OMG OMG".

gimbal · 22 May 2019, 10:58

No dude. It's just a bunch of people in a forum keeping the memory alive. No need to start ridiculing. There have been zillions of these threads already, it's good fun. Until people start to sling mud, that is.

LongLifeA1200 · 22 May 2019, 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by britelite

Maybe because it makes zero sense in 2019, why waste money on producing cartridges when there are RAM expansions available which pretty much offer the same exact possibilities, but without breaking compatibility with other models. If you could expand Chip RAM to 8MB with cartridges (with the Custom chipset being able to access it), then you'd have a point.

I was waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by britelite

And who actually cares about something being "cheating"?

"They" do.

One side says to me "That's cheating! Unreasonable for its time!" so I offer a way that wouldn't be "cheating" and reasonable for its time.

Then the other side says to me "Well if you're going to do that, you might as well add an accelerator card!" but that would defeat the purpose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by britelite

But currently you're arguing for something that pretty much no-one is interested in pursuing, and will therefore never amount to anything anyway...

Whether it be for emulation (to see the result of what could have been) or real hardware for its own sake, I bet there is interest in it somewhere.

At this point, I'm just trying to convince the purists not to be offended by the notion of using a ROM cartridge.

britelite · 22 May 2019, 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongLifeA1200

Whether it be for emulation (to see the result of what could have been) or real hardware for its own sake, I bet there is interest in it somewhere.

Yeah, people might be interested in seeing it happen, but at least I haven't really seen anyone interested in actually doing something about it...

Quote:

At this point, I'm just trying to convince the purists not to be offended by the notion of using a ROM cartridge.

I don't think anyone is actually offended by the idea, more likely just finding it a pointless exercise.

LongLifeA1200 · 22 May 2019, 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by britelite

...incompatible with anything else...

Quote:

Originally Posted by britelite

...breaking compatibility...

Quote:

Originally Posted by britelite

...please be my guest, no one's stopping you...

Quote:

Originally Posted by britelite

...no-one is interested in pursuing...

Quote:

Originally Posted by britelite

...and will therefore never amount to anything anyway...

Quote:

Originally Posted by britelite

..."OMG OMG OMG WE MUST SHOW AMIGA IS BEST OMG OMG OMG"...

Quote:

Originally Posted by britelite

...actually doing something about it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by britelite

...a pointless exercise...

We know.
We know.
We know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by britelite

But hey, looking forward to your cartridge version of the game, will be interesting to see how it performs

britelite · 22 May 2019, 11:37

So does this mean you're going to start working on it?

vulture · 22 May 2019, 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongLifeA1200

I'd like to know what's so hard to comprehend.

You're not modding your A500. You're buying *theoretically* a cartridge of similar value to AGES/Nintendon't.

You can't get what you're asking for without this medium.

Just because floppy disks were cheaper, doesn't mean cartridges was never an option for the A500.

I don't know what else to say, except; objections to the use of a ROM cartridge on the A500 is...

There's nothing for me to comprehend here. I feel like it's cheating, you don't. I don't mind that you don't, but you seem to mind my opinion. Resorting to calling my post as "stupid" and "trolling" isn't very nice of you and it certainly doesn't help get the discussion going, so, I'm done arguing about it. Fin.

d4rk3lf · 22 May 2019, 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by britelite

It's sad to see the weird inferiority complex that has struck the Amiga crowd in the past few years, with a lot of people begging for arcade/dos/whatever conversions just because "OMG OMG OMG WE MUST SHOW AMIGA IS BEST OMG OMG OMG".

I'd say, it is the way on how human mind works, not specifically Amiga related.
Everyone is full enthusiastic (and full of ideas) on the subject that they don't know very well.
After they start learning, and try bringing some of the ideas, and fighting with many obstacles, enthusiasm is replaced with much realistic view, because we see now, that behind every idea, there is a lots of manual (boring) work included.

Same is the, for example, drawing for me. Until I haven't started practicing drawing, I had like million idea, and now, with a little practice, I know that I need to plan carefully, even the simplest idea, before I start draw it, and make a steps to ensure that drawing will be based on strong fonds (composition, silhouette..).

This apply to pretty much everything else in life.

(I know you know these things... just saying)

Sorry for the Off topic.

DamienD · 22 May 2019, 12:15

Guys, can we please stop all this silly bickering?

LongLifeA1200 · 22 May 2019, 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by vulture

There's nothing for me to comprehend here. I feel like it's cheating, you don't. I don't mind that you don't, but you seem to mind my opinion. Resorting to calling my post as "stupid" and "trolling" isn't very nice of you and it certainly doesn't help get the discussion going, so, I'm done arguing about it. Fin.

The concept was already discussed earlier (in a bit of detail) with others before you interjected. You decided to start it up all the way from the beginning again. I gave another try at explaining.

If you could explain why it is cheating, I would listen. But you can't because there is no logic to it.

Do you know what your were doing is called? It's called "stirring the pot".

Anyway, another page wasted.

DamienD · 22 May 2019, 12:43

Enough please LongLifeA1200; let it go man.

vulture · 22 May 2019, 15:50

As I said, nothing more to discuss with you LLA1200.

Back to the point, having watched Outrun Europa again, there are a few instances where there's more going on at the sides of the road than any Lotus II stage and sports a parallax layer too. Gfx aren't as pretty, but I think that has more to do with the artist than the engine itself. As already noted, things like different types of vehicles and Y ways are already implemented plus it seems to be a bit faster too (NTSC compatible as well). I see no reason why that couldn't be a better basis for an A500 Outrun port in almost every aspect.

Then of course, there's that bottom panel which is looking rather ugly. Couldn't that be placed at the top of the screen with copper sky as the background to look like it's part of the game area? I mean, the horizon has no reason to be drawn that high in the sky anyway so that wouldn't incur a performance hit, would it?

005AGIMA · 23 May 2019, 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by vulture

As I said, nothing more to discuss with you LLA1200.

Back to the point, having watched Outrun Europa again, there are a few instances where there's more going on at the sides of the road than any Lotus II stage and sports a parallax layer too. Gfx aren't as pretty, but I think that has more to do with the artist than the engine itself. As already noted, things like different types of vehicles and Y ways are already implemented plus it seems to be a bit faster too (NTSC compatible as well). I see no reason why that couldn't be a better basis for an A500 Outrun port in almost every aspect.

Then of course, there's that bottom panel which is looking rather ugly. Couldn't that be placed at the top of the screen with copper sky as the background to look like it's part of the game area? I mean, the horizon has no reason to be drawn that high in the sky anyway so that wouldn't incur a performance hit, would it?

Never played Europa but if it has most of the elements, you may be right as it being a better starting point.

Will have to give it a play.

But I also now wonder if simply "improving" the original Outrun for Amiga is a possibility. Less on screen sprites to increase framerate. Then better artwork and sound FX.

From memory, the actual levels in terms of road layout was fairly faithful.

So maybe it just needs some tidying up?

LongLifeA1200 · 23 May 2019, 04:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by britelite

So does this mean you're going to start working on it?

Not anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vulture

As I said, nothing more to discuss with you LLA1200.

That's fine. You can do it on your own now, genius.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

Enough please LongLifeA1200; let it go man.

The idea has merit. Maybe the 'stirrers' should have let it go, hmm.

vulture · 23 May 2019, 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by 005AGIMA

Never played Europa but if it has most of the elements, you may be right as it being a better starting point.

Will have to give it a play.

But I also now wonder if simply "improving" the original Outrun for Amiga is a possibility. Less on screen sprites to increase framerate. Then better artwork and sound FX.

From memory, the actual levels in terms of road layout was fairly faithful.

So maybe it just needs some tidying up?

Maybe you're right. I think that the code is slow though and the frame rate wouldn't improve enough even if the number of bobs was to be decreased.

britelite · 23 May 2019, 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by vulture

Maybe you're right. I think that the code is slow though and the frame rate wouldn't improve enough even if the number of bobs was to be decreased.

Yeah, there's probably quite a bit in the code that could be improved, which in general would be a better route anyway

vulture · 23 May 2019, 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by britelite

Yeah, there's probably quite a bit in the code that could be improved, which in general would be a better route anyway

So, you're doing it?

britelite · 23 May 2019, 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by vulture

So, you're doing it?

Maybe I should first finish the game I'm working on

And no, I wouldn't go messing around with something like Outrun, due to all the risks with legal troubles. So, in this case I'd rather make my own similar game. Also, currently I'd be more intrigued in getting some kind of a Mario Kart clone running on an A500

005AGIMA · 23 May 2019, 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by britelite

Maybe I should first finish the game I'm working on

And no, I wouldn't go messing around with something like Outrun, due to all the risks with legal troubles. So, in this case I'd rather make my own similar game. Also, currently I'd be more intrigued in getting some kind of a Mario Kart clone running on an A500

Legal issues are the problem.

Instead of people going "oh wow you made something only about 200 retro gamers will play based on our IP....well done!", you'd have SEGA and Ferrari knocking on the door.

Note the port to Nintendo Switch no longer features the Testarossa

Gotta love licensing.

Also I thought there was a Mario Kart clone on amiga......the name escapes me. Google will help but that's cheating.

ok I cheated.

X-treme racing.
[ Show youtube player ]

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22 May 2019, 10:58	#83
gimbal cheeky scoundrel Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Spijkenisse/Netherlands Age: 42 Posts: 6,917	No dude. It's just a bunch of people in a forum keeping the memory alive. No need to start ridiculing. There have been zillions of these threads already, it's good fun. Until people start to sling mud, that is.

22 May 2019, 11:37	#87
britelite Registered User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Espoo / Finland Posts: 818	So does this mean you're going to start working on it?

22 May 2019, 12:15	#90
DamienD Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London / Sydney Age: 47 Posts: 20,420	Guys, can we please stop all this silly bickering?

22 May 2019, 12:43	#92
DamienD Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London / Sydney Age: 47 Posts: 20,420	Enough please LongLifeA1200; let it go man.

22 May 2019, 15:50	#93
vulture Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Athens , Greece Posts: 1,842	As I said, nothing more to discuss with you LLA1200. Back to the point, having watched Outrun Europa again, there are a few instances where there's more going on at the sides of the road than any Lotus II stage and sports a parallax layer too. Gfx aren't as pretty, but I think that has more to do with the artist than the engine itself. As already noted, things like different types of vehicles and Y ways are already implemented plus it seems to be a bit faster too (NTSC compatible as well). I see no reason why that couldn't be a better basis for an A500 Outrun port in almost every aspect. Then of course, there's that bottom panel which is looking rather ugly. Couldn't that be placed at the top of the screen with copper sky as the background to look like it's part of the game area? I mean, the horizon has no reason to be drawn that high in the sky anyway so that wouldn't incur a performance hit, would it?

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