Why do you hate Cloanto so much?

AmigaBoingBall · 03 June 2009, 20:56

I see it a different way. I love the Amiga Forever series especially 2008, since I think its an all in one package to run an Emulated Amiga on your PC plus the videos and other stuff. I'm good friends with Michael and he's just a good person. I was exposed to Amiga through Amiga Forever 3.0
I like paying for my ROMs in an honest good way. I also pay for my music online if i do like the song.

Why does some in the Amiga Community hate Cloanto? what did they do to deserve the hatred perception. Voice out your opinions and feelings here.

Let's keep it clean.

Ironclaw · 03 June 2009, 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmigaBoingBall

Let's keep it clean.

Ok, I'm out...

TCD · 03 June 2009, 21:04

I would like Cloanto much more (not hating them, just don't agree with their price policy and their newest product), if they would release a 'Kickstart pack' for 9.95 €

Edit : Maybe I'm wrong, but the Value Edition only contains 1.3 right?

StingRay · 03 June 2009, 21:07

I don't hate Cloanto (after all, I'm still using PPaint which is quite awesome!), I wouldn't ever buy any of these "Amiga/C64/whatever forever" things, specially not for the price Cloanto sells them for! Smells like a rip-off to me! Earn some quick bucks with almost no effort...

AmigaBoingBall · 03 June 2009, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

I would like Cloanto much more (not hating them, just don't agree with their price policy and their newest product), if they would release a 'Kickstart pack' for 9.95 €

yeah. Amiga Forever is pricey - i mean the Premium Version which is $49.95 which is big money in todays economic depression (honestly, we are in a depression), thats a whole other story. I bought the packaged version last year since it might be a collectors item someday.

a great idea. why not release a kickstart pack from 1.3 to 3.1 without the frills. you chose your own frontend like Amikit, etc.

or what about Amiga Forever on the App Store?
imagine that Winuae on the go. but Apple wouldn't allow it.
They're big and greedy like Microsoft.

ma693541 · 03 June 2009, 21:14

I don't hate them either, but their product's are a bit stiff priced. I got C64Forever online just 2 day's ago, a bit stiff priced for the boxed version i ordered there. Had got AF2008 before, months ago.

TCD · 03 June 2009, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmigaBoingBall

a great idea. why not release a kickstart pack from 1.3 to 3.1 without the frills. you chose your own frontend like Amikit, etc.

Make it 1.0 to 3.1

Oh and AmiKit isn't a frontend.

AmigaBoingBall · 03 June 2009, 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Make it 1.0 to 3.1

Oh and AmiKit isn't a frontend.

How would they package this for those who want to buy it as a physical item. its less than 5MB. it would be pointless to waste a CD for it.

or maybe they should have it as a pack download or as individual pay as you go download. I'll talk to Michael about this. I have him on Facebook. thanks for pointing this out.

TCD · 03 June 2009, 21:26

Of course that would be a paid download. Shouldn't be a big problem nowadays and you would use them with an emulator anyway. Cheers for talking to Michael about it

StingRay · 03 June 2009, 21:31

I don't think you'll ever see that happen. Who should buy their "cool" Amiga forever CD's then?

AmigaBoingBall · 03 June 2009, 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Of course that would be a paid download. Shouldn't be a big problem nowadays and you would use them with an emulator anyway. Cheers for talking to Michael about it

he's a very understanding person. I've been talking to him since that day i got my Amiga Forever 2008, I accidently got his email when I had said I didn't get my shipment in time. But from then on, we're good friends.

This Kickstart series download thing would be good for the community instead of illegally torrenting it, until an open source equiv. appears. Plus, this helps the tech economy in a way because we are buying again, creates jobs, etc. The people I don't trust is Amiga Inc., I think Amiga Inc. is very crazy and selfish. I mean I have a copy of OS 3.9 from H&P, but personally Amiga Inc. doesn't even come out with anything new. Except for that crummy snowball maker thingie.

TCD · 03 June 2009, 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmigaBoingBall

This Kickstart series download thing would be good for the community instead of illegally torrenting it

Yup, that were my thoughts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmigaBoingBall

until an open source equiv. appears.

That's not going to happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmigaBoingBall

Plus, this helps the tech economy in a way because we are buying again, creates jobs, etc.

Erm, not sure a paid kickstart download would have any impact on the economy or create a single job. Yet the 'Make Amiga emulation legal for a small price' idea is a good one

humble worm · 03 June 2009, 21:42

hate? hmmmm... I dont even know exactly what it is. and this probably means I dont need it

Retro-Nerd · 03 June 2009, 21:44

Amiga Kickstarts should be free, just like the Atari TOS roms. You can't earn money with it. The Amiga is dead since ages. I prefer to support companies like Individual computers, or the stores like Vesalia, Amigakit, Protovision etc.

AmigaBoingBall · 03 June 2009, 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Amiga Kickstarts should be free, just like the Atari TOS roms. You can't earn money with it. The Amiga is dead since ages. I prefer to support companies like Individual computers, or the stores like Vesalia, Amigakit, Protovision etc.

did you notice that most Amiga websites, those who tell you how to setup winuae tell you ... buy Amiga Forever from Cloanto... Kickstart from Cloanto. Example: http://www.tweakguides.com/Amiga_2.html

I guess thats marketing right there. word of web. Cloanto doesn't even need to advertise. its like a requirement or something.

StingRay · 03 June 2009, 21:52

"like a requirement"

more like "for people who don't know how to use Google" you mean

Retro-Nerd · 03 June 2009, 21:53

Yes, Kickstarts are an requirement. And the ONLY reason why the sell copies of Amiga forever. Without the kickstarts it's a pretty useless CD. And you can still dump the needed kickstarts out of your original hardware. You get an A500 for 10€.

Photon · 03 June 2009, 22:33

Here's a thread which discusses where the money goes (went?) http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=16491

But maybe there's a policy page stating it more clearly and completely?

MethodGit · 04 June 2009, 00:21

If a Kickstart pack does get made, would it be encryption-free?

Zetr0 · 04 June 2009, 01:27

In the UK you are legally allowed to back up what you own, this is a right, any company that denies this right to the consumer in a sale is infact braking the law...

this includes

software *protection* that denies or inhibts its use or copying.

you dont have to believe me, just send an email to trading standards and they will tell you this.

------------

I feel as though Micheal has really put himself in the firing line, theres been a lot of bullying of sites that offer *technically* copyright material, when no one can prove whom owns it.

This really doesnt endear him to a community that he serves even if he is a nice bloke.

the AF package is a good one, however, its drastically over priced. BUT IF it included Classic Workbench setups ready to rock with WHDload games installed as a one in all product, well then maybe it could be worth the $50 price tag.

Without the roms AF is just a TOSEC collection with a couple of vids i can watch on youTube. so heres the questions I would ask Micheal -

"Whom gets the money from the licensed roms anyway?"
"Does the original license that cloanto purchase ever run out?"
"What is the cut in royalties that you are paying? and to whom?"
"Can I have a license to distribute Kickstart ROMS?"
"Why should Coanto have an exsclusive license and no other company?"
"Have you heard of trade discrimination?"

03 June 2009, 20:56	#1
AmigaBoingBall Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Sunnyside Up Posts: 36	Why do you hate Cloanto so much? I see it a different way. I love the Amiga Forever series especially 2008, since I think its an all in one package to run an Emulated Amiga on your PC plus the videos and other stuff. I'm good friends with Michael and he's just a good person. I was exposed to Amiga through Amiga Forever 3.0 I like paying for my ROMs in an honest good way. I also pay for my music online if i do like the song. Why does some in the Amiga Community hate Cloanto? what did they do to deserve the hatred perception. Voice out your opinions and feelings here. Let's keep it clean.

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03 June 2009, 21:04	#3
TCD HOL/FTP busy bee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 46 Posts: 31,518	I would like Cloanto much more (not hating them, just don't agree with their price policy and their newest product), if they would release a 'Kickstart pack' for 9.95 € Edit : Maybe I'm wrong, but the Value Edition only contains 1.3 right?

03 June 2009, 21:07	#4
StingRay move.l #$c0ff33,throat Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Berlin/Joymoney Posts: 6,863	I don't hate Cloanto (after all, I'm still using PPaint which is quite awesome!), I wouldn't ever buy any of these "Amiga/C64/whatever forever" things, specially not for the price Cloanto sells them for! Smells like a rip-off to me! Earn some quick bucks with almost no effort...

03 June 2009, 21:14	#6
ma693541 Computer Wizard Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Ramberg/Norway Posts: 928	I don't hate them either, but their product's are a bit stiff priced. I got C64Forever online just 2 day's ago, a bit stiff priced for the boxed version i ordered there. Had got AF2008 before, months ago.

03 June 2009, 21:26	#9
TCD HOL/FTP busy bee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 46 Posts: 31,518	Of course that would be a paid download. Shouldn't be a big problem nowadays and you would use them with an emulator anyway. Cheers for talking to Michael about it

03 June 2009, 21:31	#10
StingRay move.l #$c0ff33,throat Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Berlin/Joymoney Posts: 6,863	I don't think you'll ever see that happen. Who should buy their "cool" Amiga forever CD's then?

03 June 2009, 21:42	#13
humble worm Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: BP/Poland Age: 45 Posts: 745	hate? hmmmm... I dont even know exactly what it is. and this probably means I dont need it

03 June 2009, 21:44	#14
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,435	Amiga Kickstarts should be free, just like the Atari TOS roms. You can't earn money with it. The Amiga is dead since ages. I prefer to support companies like Individual computers, or the stores like Vesalia, Amigakit, Protovision etc.

03 June 2009, 21:52	#16
StingRay move.l #$c0ff33,throat Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Berlin/Joymoney Posts: 6,863	"like a requirement" more like "for people who don't know how to use Google" you mean

03 June 2009, 21:53	#17
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,435	Yes, Kickstarts are an requirement. And the ONLY reason why the sell copies of Amiga forever. Without the kickstarts it's a pretty useless CD. And you can still dump the needed kickstarts out of your original hardware. You get an A500 for 10€.

03 June 2009, 22:33	#18
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,602	Here's a thread which discusses where the money goes (went?) http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=16491 But maybe there's a policy page stating it more clearly and completely?

04 June 2009, 00:21	#19
MethodGit Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The Streets Age: 39 Posts: 2,731	If a Kickstart pack does get made, would it be encryption-free?

04 June 2009, 01:27	#20
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	In the UK you are legally allowed to back up what you own, this is a right, any company that denies this right to the consumer in a sale is infact braking the law... this includes software protection that denies or inhibts its use or copying. you dont have to believe me, just send an email to trading standards and they will tell you this. ------------ I feel as though Micheal has really put himself in the firing line, theres been a lot of bullying of sites that offer technically copyright material, when no one can prove whom owns it. This really doesnt endear him to a community that he serves even if he is a nice bloke. the AF package is a good one, however, its drastically over priced. BUT IF it included Classic Workbench setups ready to rock with WHDload games installed as a one in all product, well then maybe it could be worth the $50 price tag. Without the roms AF is just a TOSEC collection with a couple of vids i can watch on youTube. so heres the questions I would ask Micheal - "Whom gets the money from the licensed roms anyway?" "Does the original license that cloanto purchase ever run out?" "What is the cut in royalties that you are paying? and to whom?" "Can I have a license to distribute Kickstart ROMS?" "Why should Coanto have an exsclusive license and no other company?" "Have you heard of trade discrimination?"

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