The wrong attitude over bedroom programming and legendary game developers!

[manicx]

Guys, have a look at this thread. I was disgusted by Stuart Campbell's attitude. Yes, the Sensi man and editor in Amiga Power.

Andreas Osswald made a soccer game on the PC. His game was based on old Amiga games of the same genre. In any case, his game was similar to Sensible Soccer. As the author clearly states, he didn't use any of the Sensible Soccer resources.

Dino Dini, the man who gave us Kick Off 2 and Goal! supported Andreas. This is great, a well known developer supporting bedroom programmers. Dino Dini's games have been attacked by AP and Campbell. Several moons ago I posted in the forums that I hated the attitude of SC and AP. I described it as lack of professionalism.

Thank god SC proved that I was true. He attacked a guy who is in the first steps of proper game development and who is using ideas from past games to create new ones. There have been many remakes of classic, retro games, but nobody ever accused the developers of Piracy ! It seems to me that with attitudes like that, retro gaming will end up being a luxury for owners of old hardware or owners of the original games who have the disk image for winUAE.

[P-J]

Agreed, his attitude is unbelievable. He's the kind of 'prick' we'd all associate the 'guilty until proven innocent' phrase with. I've always hated him, and in that particular forum he's proved I have reason to.

A very non-talented individual. He was a terrible journalist and I imagine he probably got paid a lot of money for very litle work at Sensible. If you need proof of his inability to be creative, design or, well, proof of his ineptitude be sure to check out his website. The link is in his signature, however I won't post it here since I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

[Peanutuk]

How old is Stuart Cambell ? He really should calm down.

As far as I was aware wasnt Sensible Soccer published ling before Stuart became involved, he may have had some input with SWOS but surely the main brand had been established by then, so it seems odd he shoudl constantly refer to "we". Could it be that his palce in 'gaming history' isnt really that substantial?

For a professional anyone to call someone a "fuckwit" for not agreeing with them is bad form.

A througher decade check shoudl be carried out on the "Rev". I mean, the "Rev" ????? what the hell is that all about?

[Marcuz]

vomit-thread... so everything is a rip off of something else. and my dinner will be a rip off of my lunch! i thought i had just finished the chicken i had'nt eat yesterday! so maybe it's cloning itself. i'm just lucky it is white meat or else the cholesterol could kill me!
and the next girlfriend would be the rip off of the previous one! that's karma! but i'm no buddhist, so maybe that's not the case! or else what kind of rip off would she be? i'm on the rip off thing, for instance it's cool to rip off the trunks of your gf with the tooths, but on the long run it does not comes cheap! so maybe i should find me a gf now and do not care anymore about rip off...

Oh man!!!,

It's attitudes like that which will destroy the future of retrogaming

What a flaming retard.

How many new games these days don't borrow something
from good older games????

I just don't understand how someone that was invovled with
one the pivotal Amiga magazines of the time can be so
brainless..


WHAT A MORON!!!! :kill

[hardmoon]

Ugh, that Campell dude from Sensible is really behaving baaaad there... Probably stopped living back in 1992 or something....

I liked Kickoff 2 better anyway so Dino Dini, cheers

[Unknown_K]

Every game borrows concepts from each game before it just like all music has roots in older music and every patent is built on the patents of others before them.

If somebody seen a work you did wether its a game, music, painting, etc and copies a style from it you should be happy that your work made a good impression on somebody. If somebody takes your exact work and scratches off your name and put theirs there then I would get upset.

Some people get stuck in the past and never move forward like the highschool football player who only talks about his old games a decade after they moved on. Everything revolves around their 5 minutes of local fame instead of moving on with life. These people should be pittied for the empty shell of a life they now live and then ignored. This will eventually force them to move on after they cant keep talking about the same old thing anymore. There is nothing wrong with reminising with others about the highlights of your past, but if your life stopped after that point you need counseling.

[tin]

Andreas Osswald should have just posted "what a tit" and closed the thread and booted campbell off his board. It wouldn't have made any difference to the outcome of the thread anyway.

[JudasEZT]

Originally posted by hardmoon
Ugh, that Campell dude from Sensible is really behaving baaaad there... Probably stopped living back in 1992 or something....

I liked Kickoff 2 better anyway so Dino Dini, cheers

Hey! we have same avatar and same opinion,.. DinoDini football games rulez!!

[hardmoon]

Originally posted by JudasEZT
Hey! we have same avatar and same opinion,.. DinoDini football games rulez!!

That's just uncanny!

[jmmijo]

Originally posted by Unknown_K

Some people get stuck in the past and never move forward like the highschool football player who only talks about his old games a decade after they moved on. Everything revolves around their 5 minutes of local fame instead of moving on with life....

The Al Bundy syndrome eh

Yes it would be nice if some people would move on and stop living so much in the past, oh wait, isn't this forum about the very same thing, hmmmmm

I guess it's a matter of perspective, this person seems to think it's a ripoff of his favorite title, perhaps in his mind that's true. I wonder if any litgation will come about now...

[Unknown_K]

Originally posted by jmmijo
The Al Bundy syndrome eh

Yes it would be nice if some people would move on and stop living so much in the past, oh wait, isn't this forum about the very same thing, hmmmmm

I guess it's a matter of perspective, this person seems to think it's a ripoff of his favorite title, perhaps in his mind that's true. I wonder if any litgation will come about now...

I never had an amiga, so its not my past but my present. While I do replay some of my favorite old games on the PC 95% of the games and 75% of equipment I have purchased in the last 2 years are ones I never played/owned.

Unless you steal actual lines of code or artwork/music is reproduced exactly there is nothing you can do in court, M$ won a look and feel battle with Apple back when apple had billions to spend on lawers.

[Amiga1992]

This is funny.

I wonder what they did back then with FOOTBALL GLORY?

However I DO agree that charging money for this product is not quite right, since IT IS a SWOS ripof after all. I think what pissed off thsi guy is that money is being earned from it, and that Andreas never credited for the inspiration. That's kind of correct. But the way he put it was teh least adequate.

[dreamkatcha]

Buried a bit deeper in that thread were a few comments about Yoda Soccer - the same scenario except that Yoda Soccer doesn't cost anything and the author has made more of an effort to credit Sensi. Campbell, while he didn't go overboard with praise said he approved of the project and would endorse it assuming it's a decent game.

[kolorabi]

Originally posted by Akira
This is funny.

I wonder what they did back then with FOOTBALL GLORY?

Football Glory came a lot later than Sensible Soccer

Anyway, Stuart has always been like this. I remember his style from "discussions" in newsgroups (I think I've had at least two arguments with him - when someone said anything bad about AP (bad meaning "AP was not the best Amiga magazine ever") in the newsgroup I used to visit, he magically appeared and flamed them).

Stuarts a prick. I've had exchanges with him in the past and he will spit the dummy at the drop of a hat..... He called almost the entire readership of PCZone (a mag he writes for) a bunch of twats because they where anti piracy and in his "professional" opinion piracy has actually helped the games industry more than any thing else . An odd opinion for some one who chews ppl out for ripping off other intellectual property .

[BippyM]

I understand where Stu is coming from, and all he is asking is the author gives some credit where due!!

Not too much to ask I'm sure!!

As for him being a prick.. I wouldn't know, but does that make everyone who speaks their mind a prick? he might not have the best ppl skills in the world but he's blatantly honest about what he thinks, regardless of what it is and whether he's right or wrong!!

[Shatterhand]

Well... I read somewhere that Sensible Software prosecuted Croteam (who made Football Glory) and at least the PC version of Football Glory had to be removed from the shelves.

This thread is great for one thing: Seeing 2 guys from the golden era of the industry discussing. Shame Dino Dini didn't show up here more.

I would like to know what Jon Hare thinks about this Championship Soccer game, as it's him who is the real brain behind Sensi Soccer.

[Amiga1992]

Originally posted by bippym
As for him being a prick.. I wouldn't know, but does that make everyone who speaks their mind a prick? he might not have the best ppl skills in the world but he's blatantly honest about what he thinks, regardless of what it is and whether he's right or wrong!!

Come on, just because he is a "celebrity" (seriously between quotes, this adjective) doesn't mean you have to play blind and not see that what he has done over there is childish and unpolite at best. As I said I see his points and I DO THINK THEY ARE VALID. However the way he put it was waaaay off. As the conversation "developed" he showed more and more that he was being a complete prick, at least over that matter. He kept going on about the same thing and defended them with patronising and insulting remarks.

You know I always speak my mind and am usually being told off by the "rude" way I do so (which I don't completely agree), but Stu wins to me for quite a bunch of miles. Everyone can tell their minds, I'm all in favour of that, but come on, there are ways to do it. He should have, for a start, contacted the author DIRECTLY instead of making that public mess.

[manicx]

Originally posted by Akira
This is funny.

I wonder what they did back then with FOOTBALL GLORY?

However I DO agree that charging money for this product is not quite right, since IT IS a SWOS ripof after all. I think what pissed off thsi guy is that money is being earned from it, and that Andreas never credited for the inspiration. That's kind of correct. But the way he put it was teh least adequate.

Allow me to disagree with you. Is ID credited by all companies that create FPS games? No, but they make hell lot of money. Why would the game be free? I don't understand... Is PES 3 free? No, but let's face it it was inspired by FIFA. There are millions of old remakes out there and there are many of them that you have to pay to get the full version. If this is the case i.e. not pay for programs/games that are based on other programs/games, the Amiga PD scene would probably be dead and Aminet would have die from day 1... Sorry, but you are wrong there!