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Old 30 June 2020, 09:47   #41
skan
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Interesting thread.

I'm (slowly, VERY slowly) coming back to Amiga development along with a couple of good old friends (same old power-trio setup: coder+musician+graphician ) and it's nice to see that things are finally getting better in the homebrew scene on Amiga with plenty of cool releases on the horizon!

Now, I'm far from being a pro pixel artist, but I can relate to both parties here... but I'd rather experiment with some "borderline" graphic concepts right now and not going the Elfmania-quality way to be honest! Dunno, I'm thinking of a c64-palette-restricted shmup f.i. or an action/platform with CGA colors... There will be plenty of hate I suppose, but I'm almost 45 and to quote good old Rick Wakeman "I'm permanently reading 9.8 on the I-don’t-give-a-f*ck meter"

That said, I'd also love to push my pixels a bit further and try that Elfmania-quality style for a platformer, but for now I'll stay with a clean, minimalistic style.
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Old 30 June 2020, 10:30   #42
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My point of view is little different. Many recent games are jump and run and there are already "hundreds" of these from the Amiga heydays. So I expect the new game would be better than the old ones or otherwise what is the point doing it / buying it. It doesn't have to mean graphically better, but for example some new cool game mechanics or ideas... but it is rare, very rare.
On the other hand there are many new/other game genres that would be cool to play on Amiga. For example PC game Into the Breach, graphics could be much simpler and the game still would be lot of fun.
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Old 30 June 2020, 10:41   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExiE View Post
My point of view is little different. Many recent games are jump and run and there are already "hundreds" of these from the Amiga heydays. So I expect the new game would be better than the old ones or otherwise what is the point doing it / buying it. It doesn't have to mean graphically better, but for example some new cool game mechanics or ideas... but it is rare, very rare.
On the other hand there are many new/other game genres that would be cool to play on Amiga. For example PC game Into the Breach, graphics could be much simpler and the game still would be lot of fun.
I was talking about gfx and not game concept/design, but I agree completely.
We need fresh , simple, little, enjoyable ideas.

The prototype we're working on is a simple Defender/Cybernetix-like shooter, but we're throwing a couple of extra ideas in the mix. Not necessarily original ones, but ya know... good artists copy, great artists steal!

Edit: oh, btw: Gfx style, color choices, etc... can dictate game design - and the other way round - anyway!

Last edited by skan; 30 June 2020 at 10:48.
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Old 30 June 2020, 10:58   #44
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So I expect the new game would be better than the old ones or otherwise what is the point doing it / buying it.
The short answer from a programmers point of view would be: I'd say the point is that the developer(s) really wanted to make that kind of game.

For instance, it's long been a dream of mine to one day tackle one or more of the old genres (shoot em up, platformer, strategy, etc) myself. And if I do, I'll make it the way I want it. Which will probably be mechanically similar to existing games as I like those other games.

I'd argue that the point of homebrew development is that the developer(s) wants to make something, nothing more. That we all get to enjoy the fruits of their labour is nice, but that's just a bonus
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Old 30 June 2020, 11:06   #45
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The short answer from a programmers point of view would be: I'd say the point is that the developer(s) really wanted to make that kind of game.
...
I'd argue that the point of homebrew development is that the developer(s) wants to make something, nothing more. That we all get to enjoy the fruits of their labour is nice, but that's just a bonus
Exactly that.
This whole "what's the point, already done before" thing is starting to be a bit annoying, to put it gently. If you don't like a game, just ignore it. Nobody is forcing anybody to buy/download/whatever after all.
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Old 30 June 2020, 12:02   #46
Steril707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skan View Post
Dunno, I'm thinking of a c64-palette-restricted shmup f.i. or an action/platform with CGA colors... There will be plenty of hate I suppose, but I'm almost 45 and to quote good old Rick Wakeman "I'm permanently reading 9.8 on the I-don’t-give-a-f*ck meter"
.
Well, if you get a comment like "why does this look so weird, please do a proper 16 colour Amiga palette!" the tenth or hundredth time when you post something online, you will probably reconsider.

I mean, I am happy when people tell me about bugs.

I also feel okay, when somebody tells me that he/she doesn't like a stylistic choice I made. Not everybody can like everything.

But, it somehow itches me if people want to sell me their own idea and taste about something like it would be a bug if I don't do it the way they want it to.

Basically masquerading personal taste as concern for another person's project.
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Old 30 June 2020, 12:19   #47
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Well, if you get a comment like "why does this look so weird, please do a proper 16 colour Amiga palette!" the tenth or hundredth time when you post something online, you will probably reconsider.

I mean, I am happy when people tell me about bugs.

I also feel okay, when somebody tells me that he/she doesn't like a stylistic choice I made. Not everybody can like everything.

But, it somehow itches me if people want to sell me their own idea and taste about something like it would be a bug if I don't do it the way they want it to.

Basically masquerading personal taste as concern for another person's project.
I hear your pain and maybe I've been part of it too (I remember I gave you some feedback on the gfx , but there was a bit of misunderstanding IIRC ), but again, like you said it's a matter of personal taste and doing what we want in the end. So no, I won't reconsider if/when someone tells me my pixels suck!
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Old 30 June 2020, 13:58   #48
gimbal
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See? Game development is art. Because boy, these are artist complaints

(Sorry for what may happen next, I said the trigger word).
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Old 30 June 2020, 14:31   #49
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See? Game development is art. Because boy, these are artist complaints

(Sorry for what may happen next, I said the trigger word).
Don't worry, the word "complaints" shouldn't trigger that many people
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Old 30 June 2020, 14:39   #50
skan
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Don't worry, the word "complaints" shouldn't trigger that many people
"boy", on the other hand...
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Old 30 June 2020, 16:26   #51
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Hi ! It seems expectations are rising as some devs have been building up their skills recently. See Richard Lowenstein and his tremendous progress between the 1st and the 3rd Reshoot. That came indeed at a cost : thousands of short nights.

5 years ago, I really didn't expect to see any significant new title and was already grateful to see some interesting stuff coming. What is explaining this rise in quality ? Maybe the kids are grown up now ?

Anyway : devs (graphists, musicians) should do it if they enjoy it. Their work will be massively appreciated by the majority of people. The rest can express their criticisms -- they'll be taken into consideration if they are respectful & make sense.

Well, thanks everyone involved. So happy to see this new golden age. Still, I'll never stop playing Slam Tilt, Disposable Hero and Shadow Fighter !
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Old 01 July 2020, 00:25   #52
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You may want to give a look at this LOOOOOONG but TAASTY thread on ppa.pl, where pixel art is shown from several sources and produced by the local users: lots of ideas there, included the famed R3D platform that is currently on hold and which i made the soundtrack.

Pixels, pixels thread in ppa.pl (google translated)

But beside that i love the freshness of the style and the colors of most of Koyot ideas; is not a style for everyone but gives an idea on how things could evolve if we leave off the idea of do things the same way as to remember the good'ol times and try new roads; is not about the destination but the journey!
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