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Old 21 September 2020, 15:47   #261
Chucky
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Anyway MMU is very much useful for debuggingtools..

and the link you gave. I cannt see anything in that link that hints to debugging..
actually virtual memory and memoryprotection.

sure the "common person" usually have not much need of a MMU.. that is true.. but when debugging programs it can be pretty nice to have.
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Old 21 September 2020, 15:54   #262
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Real world tests like Quake, LightWave or Diablo already have proven that the V1200 is faster than the heavily overclocked Warp 1260.
The Warp products are nice but just not as fast as the Vampire cards.
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Old 21 September 2020, 15:56   #263
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yeah when a fpu gives float answers to a double instruction. yes it is faster..

(calculates wrong. but hey. that is not important.)
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Old 21 September 2020, 16:17   #264
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Diablo or Quake don't work properly?
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Old 21 September 2020, 16:40   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mulder77 View Post
Real world tests like Quake, LightWave or Diablo [...]
It always strikes me as a little bit funny that the result of all this (cost, dev time, arguing time...) basically boils down to running a few ancient PC games and some programs which would work fine on an old laptop

Yeah, I know, I know...bit cruel, and perhaps unfair, but that's how it looks to an outsider.

Ultimately though, I don't really have anything against either the Vamp or 060 (?) camps, there is no judging in the hobby world, especially the retro computing one (and from somebody who buys old tapes and bizarre 8-bit contraptions). Still, you shouldn't be surprised when some people find it all rather odd.
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Old 21 September 2020, 16:52   #266
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There is no doubt that Vampire are faster and cheaper.
Why would I give almost a thousand dollars for a Warp 1260 + CPU, then?
Also, 060 availability is limited, with an increasing price and in the future it can only get worse.

btw, I read an excellent Vampire review here, I think it sums up all this nicely:
http://www.markround.com/blog/2020/0...ga-1200-review
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Old 21 September 2020, 17:54   #267
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For a card that has to be paid 500 EUR + 200-400 EUR for CPU, its totally unacceptable.
It is totally acceptable if you want the best 060 card there is and are willing to spend the price. Any new card is unacceptable if you only want legacy hardware. A Vampire is the best choice if you want the fastest card money can buy at this time. It's all just about making a choice from the options available. The good thing is that there are options.
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Old 21 September 2020, 17:55   #268
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I agree with Grond. doesn't happen that often
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Old 21 September 2020, 17:58   #269
grond
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Originally Posted by dreadnought View Post
It always strikes me as a little bit funny that the result of all this (cost, dev time, arguing time...) basically boils down to running a few ancient PC games and some programs which would work fine on an old laptop
Yes, it is a bit funny but those are some examples of complex software we have that reflect a 68k CPU's speed better than any BS-benchmark such as SysInfo can. 30fps in Quake or the shortest rendering times in Lightwave of all 68k Amiga hardware are something you can't deny.
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Old 21 September 2020, 18:03   #270
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The memory bandwidth, at least on Vampire standalone v.4 is way beyond any real Amiga.
I think 500-600MB sec.
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Old 21 September 2020, 21:13   #271
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Originally Posted by grond View Post
It is totally acceptable if you want the best 060 card there is and are willing to spend the price. Any new card is unacceptable if you only want legacy hardware. A Vampire is the best choice if you want the fastest card money can buy at this time. It's all just about making a choice from the options available. The good thing is that there are options.
I just gave my opinion regarding the question posted by the topic starter and compared the options he mentioned.
For me, Warp is a dead end from the beginning, with a very uncertain future.
Who wants legacy hardware for nostalgic reasons, he can always buy real Blizzard if he wants.
In that sense, both Vampire and Warp, have no nostalgic value for them, because they are new products.
What else are we doing here, except to compare them in terms of performance, usability, value for money etc.
Everything else is subjective and matter of personal preference.
If we put things that way, then any discussion is meaningless..
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Old 21 September 2020, 22:05   #272
grond
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I just gave my opinion regarding the question posted by the topic starter and compared the options he mentioned.
For me, Warp is a dead end from the beginning, with a very uncertain future.
Well, I own a V1200 and don't plan to buy a Warp, so what can I say?
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Old 21 September 2020, 22:53   #273
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I own Blizzard IV 030 with 16MB and are very happy with that. It is the first accelerator card I bought for Amiga back in the day. I had Cyberstorm, Cybervision, Delfia soundcard etc. Have no need for it anymore. That was when my A4000 was my main computer. No game, scene prod. to talk about where ever made for anything more than AGA, 060. That is NG Amigas and alternatives included. I doubt that will ever change. It is also very few original productions that need 060. Even if Vampire is quite faster than 060 it is still nothing close to what you would need to run a modern web-browser. 1080p and up is the standard these days. Vamp. can never do stuff in that res.
All that said I still think Vampire is kind of cool as it is 68k. At least much cooler than any NG Amiga platform.

Last edited by nikosidis; 21 September 2020 at 23:03.
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Old Yesterday, 09:23   #274
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Originally Posted by Retro-mania View Post
Just a quick straw poll - for a big performance boost and increased gaming experience with FPS’s such as Doom, Quake etc, from the following list which would you choose assuming you have a stock A1200
Another vote for the Vampire 1200. I've got the V4 stand-alone and it's _crazy_ fast. I've also got a Turbo 1220 (faster 68020, 68882, 8MB fast) which isn't enough to make FPS work well: Gloom is OK but not great, Quake is unplayable. Also it causes IDE problems which make booting from HD a game of Russian roulette.
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Old Yesterday, 11:52   #275
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With the TerribleFire 1260 being cancelled now, what do you guys think will be the best budget 060 or at least 040 option? Maybe the ACA1240 as it's supposed to be almost as fast as a 060 accelerator card.
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Old Yesterday, 11:57   #276
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Terrible Fire 060 CD32 and A1200 cards are not cancelled. They just won't be open source. You will have to buy them from the core team of builders.
2020 starting to look a bit better
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Old Yesterday, 11:59   #277
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Originally Posted by leeg View Post
Another vote for the Vampire 1200. I've got the V4 stand-alone and it's _crazy_ fast. I've also got a Turbo 1220 (faster 68020, 68882, 8MB fast) which isn't enough to make FPS work well: Gloom is OK but not great, Quake is unplayable. Also it causes IDE problems which make booting from HD a game of Russian roulette.

It is all well to use these games for benchmark but do you seriously play them?
I'm not saying that Doom is a bad game but for that kind of games I rather play more recent stuff. By the way, Quake look shit without a GPU.


I play a beautiful game right now that fits the Amiga perfect called "Another World"
Does not require any accelerator at all as 99% of all Amiga games At least the ones worth playing.
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Old Yesterday, 12:05   #278
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Quote:
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Terrible Fire 060 CD32 and A1200 cards are not cancelled. They just won't be open source. You will have to buy them from the core team of builders.
2020 starting to look a bit better
Sadly I am not sure anymore

and I guess reactions of this will show a shitstorm not helping the situation.

All I will comment on this at this moment..
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Old Yesterday, 12:55   #279
grond
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With the TerribleFire 1260 being cancelled now, what do you guys think will be the best budget 060 or at least 040 option? Maybe the ACA1240 as it's supposed to be almost as fast as a 060 accelerator card.
The word "budget" doesn't go well with "ACA"... I'd be surprised if the ACA stayed below the Warp price tag unless it had all the good stuff removed like RTG, 16 bit audio and the ARM helper. And only then it would probably still be rather close to the Warp's price tag. And where does the "almost as fast as a 060 accelerator" come from? No 040 accelerator is anywhere close to an 060 accelerator in speed.

In any case, Matze is developing an 060 card which I would expect to hit a very sweet price/performance ratio.
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