wrath of the demon atari st

[albino]

I just watched a longplays of this game on atari st, i was actually very surprised about the result wich is really close of the amiga version. My question is how come a game developed specially for the amiga could be ports with such quality on a less powerfull hardware like the st?

[saimon69]

ST or STE? (STE has a blitter, albeit less powerful than the Amiga one so it could come similar)

[frank_b]

Originally Posted by saimon69

ST or STE? (STE has a blitter, albeit less powerful than the Amiga one so it could come similar)

The only STe feature is the extended palette on the title screen. It's not using the blitter, hscroll, ADMA or split screen scrolling support in game.

[meynaf]

It's not so much "less powerful". The 68000 has 1Mhz more than on the Amiga.

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by meynaf

It's not so much "less powerful". The 68000 has 1Mhz more than on the Amiga.

Which it isn't relevant in this type of game IMO

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

Which it isn't relevant in this type of game IMO

Why wouldn't it be relevant ? What the hardware can't do directly, the cpu can.

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by albino

I just watched a longplays of this game on atari st, i was actually very surprised about the result wich is really close of the amiga version. My question is how come a game developed specially for the amiga could be ports with such quality on a less powerfull hardware like the st?

They style of gameplay suits colour palette reloading which the ST can do as well as the Amiga.

It using one less bitplane as well means the CPU on the ST means one less bitplane it needs to process.

You say WOTD was specifically designed around the Amiga, but I don't believe that to be entirely true.

Its clear to me at least there was consideration for the ST in the design stages for it to be such a close rendition of the Amiga version.

[dlfrsilver]

Ulrich Doewich, the ST coder of WOTD is a very good coder. But Hey Galahad, the Amiga on the opposite has much more to push than the ST in term of bitplans.

Next, the 1mhz bit is a legend. Mcoder said it on the Atari Forum to a guy asking what it was about. He answered him "that's a myth, the 1mhz is lost because the ST has to make things in software".

[meynaf]

The 1mhz isn't "lost". It is "used". It helps to compensate for lack of hardware.

[mcgeezer]

Is’nt that game running at 25fps?
Also looks very sotb like to me so just bust that out if u get any st sceners demo’ing next to u.

[jayminer]

It doesn't look like it's even keeping up with 25fps all the time while the amiga version seems to run at a steady 50fps. I like the colors of the sky better on the ST than the Amiga in the first level, and it sure is an impressive ST port, but the Amiga version plays much more fluently and the colors in general are nicer. IMO.

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by meynaf

The 1mhz isn't "lost". It is "used". It helps to compensate for lack of hardware.

Mcoder explained the 1mhz advantage over the Amiga was a myth. Since he was the best or one of the best ST coder back in the day, he knew his facts.

[frank_b]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

Mcoder explained the 1mhz advantage over the Amiga was a myth. Since he was the best or one of the best ST coder back in the day, he knew his facts.

Just think of it this way. Any time the 8mhz CPU on the ST is executing code it does so 1 mhz faster than the Amiga. It's even faster when 5 or 6 bitplanes are enabled on a chip or chip/bogo fast configured 500. This is simply a fact. Code runs faster on the ST*

The Amiga can save cycles with the blitter and copper though. Copper moves are faster than the timer B interrupt on the ST. Drawing sprites with hardware is more efficient than doing so with the blitter or CPU. Using the blitter for copying or masking is more efficient than using the CPU. Using the hardware scrolling is more efficient than bit shifting the screen.
It depends on the work load.

Note that copying and masking on the ST blitter is also more efficient than using the 68k. If a game can be bothered to take advantage of it!
Modern masking techniques are also quick on a blitter enabled ST.

Eg

[ Show youtube player ]
[ Show youtube player ]
[ Show youtube player ]

You're not getting that performance out a 68k any time soon.


*there is one subtlety worth noting here. Depending on the instructions executed code from fast RAM can run quicker than code from chip ram with 4 or less bitplanes active. Conditional branches and shifts might be quicker because they may not execute on a multiple of 4 cycles.

[nobody]

Usually the same game that runs 50 fps on the Amiga if ported well on the ST runs at 25 or 12 fps with less colors. This if using the Amiga extra hardware. Or else it's identical. Turrican 2 runs slower on the ST but looks very close because it's using 16 colors on the Amiga too. Obviously the 2 ports were done together. So it wasn't an Amiga game and then port to the ST.

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

Mcoder explained the 1mhz advantage over the Amiga was a myth. Since he was the best or one of the best ST coder back in the day, he knew his facts.

This is called "argument from authority".
Even MCoder can be wrong.

[StingRay]

I pretty much doubt MCoder meant it in the way dlfrsilver interpreted it!

[britelite]

Originally Posted by StingRay

I pretty much doubt MCoder meant it in the way dlfrsilver inpreted it!

That's pretty much what I thought too, something is lost in translation

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

It using one less bitplane as well means the CPU on the ST means one less bitplane it needs to process.

Well, the ST always has to work with four bitplanes in lo-res, as they're not separate in memory like the Amiga so cannot use fewer of them if required, so ST games are at least consistent in their graphical prowess.

[britelite]

Originally Posted by Foebane

Well, the ST always has to work with four bitplanes in lo-res, as they're not separate in memory like the Amiga so cannot use fewer of them if required, so ST games are at least consistent in their graphical prowess.

Of course it can use fewer planes, you just don't write to the planes you don't want to use.

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by britelite

Of course it can use fewer planes, you just don't write to the planes you don't want to use.

I think he means in contrast to the Amiga where you can specifically enable or disable bit planes. The ST IIRC has 4 word aligned interleaved bit planes.