custom dungeon for dungeon master 1

[skan]

*bump*

Sorry for not being around, I've been extremely buzy with real-life crap in the last few months. (I still am tbh ;P)

Gonna download and try the updated dungeon, I suspect I'm gonna have plenty of free time in August!

About the game: I didn't play that much anymore since then (I mean games in general), but I remember I tried to make the rats follow me and then close'em behind the gates/doors of nearby chambers... don't remember if I succeded in doin' that tho...

*edit*

Ok, I just can't get rid of the bloody rats!!! How many of them are out there ffs!?!?
Is there an invisible wall or something I'm missing?

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by skan

Ok, I just can't get rid of the bloody rats!!! How many of them are out there ffs!?!?
Is there an invisible wall or something I'm missing?

You probably won't pass if you can't kill at least one of them. You may miss some experience or more powerful weaponry.

The advice I can tell you is : if you're unsuccessful somewhere, go elsewhere !
There are many places in the dungeon that await you to conquer them, the game isn't linear so use it at your profit.

Note : I've started another - much easier - dungeon project now. Perhaps I'll make quite a few of them, of various difficulty levels. You're actually playing the "insane" difficulty level, remember

[skan]

Ok, so I guess I'll crawl some other chambers around first!

[meynaf]

Good. I would like to know of your progress (even if you didn't progress ).

[alexh]

If you made a version which "eased" you in a bit you'd get more players.

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by alexh

If you made a version which "eased" you in a bit you'd get more players.

Not really an "eased" version but another completely different dungeon.

In fact I'm thinking about making 5 of them, from "beginner" to "insane" difficulty levels.
But it's gonna take much time and work, so if some people have nice ideas about puzzle, it's maybe time to share them

[alexh]

Now we are talking, difficult puzzles are WAY better than impossible deathmatches.

In the original DM I liked the puzzle which involved using the time-stopping boxes so something along that line would be good, perhaps a room with random pits you cannot get across without stopping time, or doors which open and close too fast to get through....

I also liked the puzzle where you had to read the riddles above alcoves and then find objects scattered around the dungeon to place in the alcoves to open the door.

Illusionary walls were always a favourite of mine, but they always work best if you structure the level so that you think you've completed the level without passing through the hidden wall and then have to revisit the levels looking for the secret areas to find a critical part of a puzzle on a later level.

There are Rocks and Paper in the game, all you would need is something to represent Scissors and you'd have an interesting puzzle.

Firing fireballs into teleporters at just the right time for them to pass through an intricate pattern of spinners and teleporters was always fun, as was placing items in teleporters to open pressure plates.

I wonder if with two pressure plates you could create effectively a "Scales" and have a puzzle which requires certain amounts of weight on each one to balance open a door too much or too little on either one and a different door full of monsters opens.

Having to drop items down pits on upper levels to open pressure plates on lower levels was always cunning... and I especially liked secret areas you could not get to in lower levels without climbing down pits (i.e. small enclosed rooms with, items, potentially puzzles and either a teleporter in them or a rope to climb out)

[skan]

Invisible walls are always good, but you can only check their existence by throwing stuff or hitting your head around randomly...not funny at all imho.

Was it in DM3.6 you could use the pointer to discover invisible walls? Or CSB? Or both maybe?
That would rule, but Meynaf's engine seems not to support that feature at the moment. Update anyone?

[alexh]

Originally Posted by skan

Was it in DM3.6 you could use the pointer to discover invisible walls? Or CSB? Or both maybe?

I thought it was in all Amiga versions but not the ST version.

Couldn't you also use Oh Ew Ra to find invisible walls?

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by skan

Invisible walls are always good, but you can only check their existence by throwing stuff or hitting your head around randomly...not funny at all imho.

Was it in DM3.6 you could use the pointer to discover invisible walls? Or CSB? Or both maybe?
That would rule, but Meynaf's engine seems not to support that feature at the moment. Update anyone?

It appeared in V3 of the engine (AM 3.3 has it, ST 2.1 doesn't). It is in my todo list, but I can push it in the urgent list if you ask

Of course I can give out my code to get some help, but most of it is totally unreadable resourced code...

Originally Posted by alexh

I thought it was in all Amiga versions but not the ST version.

Couldn't you also use Oh Ew Ra to find invisible walls?

No spell will allow you to find invisible walls, the only thing you can do with spells is see thru walls.
I plan on adding a spell to be able to remove them, like in Bloodwych.

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by alexh

Now we are talking, difficult puzzles are WAY better than impossible deathmatches.

Hey my deathmatches aren't impossible !
It's just that my "insane" difficulty level doesn't suit you.

Originally Posted by alexh

In the original DM I liked the puzzle which involved using the time-stopping boxes so something along that line would be good, perhaps a room with random pits you cannot get across without stopping time, or doors which open and close too fast to get through....

You're probably speaking about CSB ; there's no such puzzles in DM1.

Doing this requires having a hidden creature activating pressure pads. A good idea... provided there are still magical boxes left, else this would potentially block the player !

Originally Posted by alexh

I also liked the puzzle where you had to read the riddles above alcoves and then find objects scattered around the dungeon to place in the alcoves to open the door.

I have a similar one in my actual dungon

Originally Posted by alexh

Illusionary walls were always a favourite of mine, but they always work best if you structure the level so that you think you've completed the level without passing through the hidden wall and then have to revisit the levels looking for the secret areas to find a critical part of a puzzle on a later level.

I have a key hidden in such a manner in my dungeon...

Originally Posted by alexh

There are Rocks and Paper in the game, all you would need is something to represent Scissors and you'd have an interesting puzzle.

Well, let's say it's a dagger. How would the puzzle work ?

Originally Posted by alexh

Firing fireballs into teleporters at just the right time for them to pass through an intricate pattern of spinners and teleporters was always fun, as was placing items in teleporters to open pressure plates.

Sounds good... can you make some sort of a map showing this ?

Originally Posted by alexh

I wonder if with two pressure plates you could create effectively a "Scales" and have a puzzle which requires certain amounts of weight on each one to balance open a door too much or too little on either one and a different door full of monsters opens.

Such a balance system reminds me of Ishar 2...

DM has no way to detect amount of weight on a pressure pad, even though it should not be overly difficult to add.

Could you please develop your idea ?

Originally Posted by alexh

Having to drop items down pits on upper levels to open pressure plates on lower levels was always cunning... and I especially liked secret areas you could not get to in lower levels without climbing down pits (i.e. small enclosed rooms with, items, potentially puzzles and either a teleporter in them or a rope to climb out)

If you like to climb down pits, then why didn't you do it in my dungeon (especially in the couatls area) ?

[alexh]

Originally Posted by meynaf

No spell will allow you to find invisible walls, the only thing you can do with spells is see thru walls.

Does that not result in a different gfx when looking through an illusionary wall compared to a regular wall?

[alexh]

Originally Posted by meynaf

Well, let's say it's a dagger. How would the puzzle work ?

This is just an example of a puzzle, probably best to find a similar type game to implement.

In the game Rock, Paper, Scissors each item can defeat one other item:

Paper covers Rock.
Scissors cut paper.
Rock blunts scissors.

So if you had a corridor with flying daggers then you could perhaps switch them off by throwing a rock, or placing it in a teleporter or something? Perhaps use a scroll to open a wall (rock).

I'll find a map of cascading teleporters. Pretty sure there are loads of them in CSB

One other feature of DM that I dont think was ever used but I always liked the idea was that if you started off with only 3 people... you could come across the bones of a 4th player deep in the dungeon which could be resurrected in an altar of Vi and join your party. Sort of a secret character.

[alexh]

I do wish someone would create a DM style game using a texture mapped 3D engine. Not necessarily on the Amiga.

[skan]

Originally Posted by alexh

One other feature of DM that I dont think was ever used but I always liked the idea was that if you started off with only 3 people... you could come across the bones of a 4th player deep in the dungeon which could be resurrected in an altar of Vi and join your party. Sort of a secret character.

Hey! You stole (part of) my idea!
(Just ask Meynaf )

Originally Posted by alexh

I do wish someone would create a DM style game using a texture mapped 3D engine. Not necessarily on the Amiga.

They tried many times and always failed. Just check here:
http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=view/Clones

This one looks promising tho:
http://www.entombed.co.uk/

And this one (made by well-known and talented Finnish coders ) had plenty of potential, but sadly it's dead now. Pity.
http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/822

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by alexh

Does that not result in a different gfx when looking through an illusionary wall compared to a regular wall?

Nope, the gfx is exactly the same - or there's something I didn't know !

Originally Posted by alexh

This is just an example of a puzzle, probably best to find a similar type game to implement.

In the game Rock, Paper, Scissors each item can defeat one other item:

Paper covers Rock.
Scissors cut paper.
Rock blunts scissors.

So if you had a corridor with flying daggers then you could perhaps switch them off by throwing a rock, or placing it in a teleporter or something? Perhaps use a scroll to open a wall (rock).

I know that sort of game, but I simply can't see how it can apply to DM !

Originally Posted by alexh

I'll find a map of cascading teleporters. Pretty sure there are loads of them in CSB

Ok, but I don't want to copy CSB

Originally Posted by alexh

One other feature of DM that I dont think was ever used but I always liked the idea was that if you started off with only 3 people... you could come across the bones of a 4th player deep in the dungeon which could be resurrected in an altar of Vi and join your party. Sort of a secret character.

This isn't a feature of DM. It simply isn't there...

The problem of those characters is that they may well be lacking the experience gained by others.

Originally Posted by alexh

I do wish someone would create a DM style game using a texture mapped 3D engine. Not necessarily on the Amiga.

What interest ? Full 3D kills playability IMO - anyway it adds nothing useful to it.

[gimbal]

anyway it adds nothing useful to it.

Not full 3D, just rendering based on a 3D API. Same playability as always, but with the option to add high resolution textures and such. It could certainly add some dimensions to the original concept if used properly.

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by gimbal

Not full 3D, just rendering based on a 3D API. Same playability as always, but with the option to add high resolution textures and such. It could certainly add some dimensions to the original concept if used properly.

Could be nice, but for just a graphical enhancement you would need to rewrite the whole game...

[gimbal]

Originally Posted by meynaf

Could be nice, but for just a graphical enhancement you would need to rewrite the whole game...

Exactly! That is where the fun is!

[Marcuz]

i think that as far as these dungeon crawl kind of games goes, there are few approaches that pay, better not mix them up.

at one side 2D bitmap games like EoB with few but good puzzles, at the other Ultima Underworld like games in which a 3D world is instrumental to the very game mechanics.

the exemple of the Entombed remake is very cold to me, but maybe it's just taste.

me too i've failed in such a project so far, so i cannot judge for sure