Help with INDI and VAMP

[lord of time]

I really need to configure the indivision ECS and with the Vampire installed the config software just wont run - is there a work around? (other than remove the Vamp as it took a long time to get it mounted correctly and I dont wish to disturb it) I have also been told I can hook up the the programmer and blank the Vamp temporarily but again its not ideal - Id like to do it from software somehow? is there maybe a hacked config tool? or a way to poke it directly like in the olden days of a C64? There must be others that have come accross this yet I cant find much about it!

[ShK]

V600? Do you have a USB Blaster? You can erase the core and boot with A600 68000 to config soft.

[lord of time]

yea I wanted to avoid doing this - anyway it dosnt seem possible... I have just spent an hour trying various ways to clear the fpga core using the programmer software to no avail - seriously isnt there a better config tool or something?

[ShK]

Indivision ECS and Vampire registers overlap. There is no other way to get Indy config tool to work than remove Vamp. Or on V600 case, erase core temporarily.

[lord of time]

yea but that also has program configure checked meaning it will reprogram the core to it - erase on its own alwayas responds with fail... Explain more about these registers? there has to be a way around this. Also just realised this wont work as I dont have a rom in the socket!

[ShK]

The core replaces the same register area on its own.

[lord of time]

is there anyway of changing the indi register area? why do they use the same registers? im just trying to learn a little.

[ShK]

That is a question for JENS. It occurred when the RTG was added to the core.

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by ShK

That is a question for JENS. It occurred when the RTG was added to the core.

If it occurred when RTG was added, then surely it's a question for those who added the RTG?

[ShK]

Changing the INDI register area is not.

[Daedalus]

Indeed it's not, but you've completely missed the point. The question shouldn't be about moving the Indivision registers at all (which AFAIK remain unchanged for nearly a decade), but about moving the Vampire RTG registers.

[ShK]

No I didn't. That is a new question. I am not sure if they can even live side by side. Christoph 'ceaich' Höhne might be able to answer, if he only could have all data of INDY.

[Daedalus]

Right. Anyway. Is it not already available? The register maps for most Individual stuff is on the Wiki.

[ShK]

I have not noticed them there. If even ceaich could get them to work same time, all drivers and tools of every VAMP model need to be recompiled for the new system then.

[lord of time]

yea - it would be easier to make the indi work with the vamp rather than the other way round... trust me

[Daedalus]

And why is that? The Vampire is still under development with soft cores being rolled out regularly (indeed, a new alpha version was released only yesterday). It would seem the obvious thing to do to move the registers there and update the drivers to suit when a product is still in development, rather than a mature product that's been fully finished, working and stable for the guts of a decade?

Besides, with the Vampire being fully 32-bit, why place registers for RTG in 24-bit space when there's close to 4GB of empty space that could be used instead, including dedicated space specifically for add-on functionality like graphics cards? Sounds like a terrible design choice to me that could easily be rectified. And even if the Indivision was adjusted to work, all it takes is another poor design choice in a future Vampire core to cause the exact same problem again.

while there might be less work involved in changing the Indivision register layout (arguable), it's silly to think it's Individual's responsibility.

[lord of time]

I will tell you why - the Vamp dev guys see the indivision as not required as there Apollo core can do RTG and as you say the newly released beta core can do AGA.... however I wish to have RTG and Indivision output as I tried the AGA core and firstly as its Beta it dosnt do both AGA and RTG in the same core and secondly as its beta its still very buggy way too buggy for everyday use! so you see I dont think there would be any chance the Vampire guys would help... I just thaught maybe some clever people here might have had a work around as I cant believe this hasnt caused anybody else a headache?

[Daedalus]

Oh, I understand the situation, don't worry, and I'm sure there are many other users with the same issue. What I don't understand is why the Vampire guys decided the Indivision was not of use when their RTG-equipped cores all fall back to the native output for most games, perhaps the most common use of Vampire-equipped Amigas. It would be very obvious to me anyway that keeping the Indivision working would be a good thing so that people could use one monitor - HDMI or DVI in for the RTG and VGA in for the native screenmodes.

The new version with AGA (once finished) would finally be the solution to the issue, but if they're not going to be willing or able to also fit the RTG in there at the same time, they should at least fix the RTG for people in the same situation as yourself. Actually, come to think about it... If there's enough space on the chip for both AGA and RTG, perhaps the reason RTG had to be removed for this version is the same reason the Indivision doesn't work - they've used chipset-space registers for their RTG setup, and now have to untangle them to get them working together... If that's the case, now is the ideal opportunity to move the offending functions to empty space where they should have been all along.

What I also don't get is why you think Individual would be likely to help either, for the reasons I posted above. If anything, the reasons you give for the Vampire guys are even more valid applied the other way around: Individual don't see the need to update their devices, which are working happily with their current address map since 2009, since the Vampire has RTG and therefore no need for the Indivision. And since the Vampire is still under development, there's a high risk that spending time and money developing an update would be wasted due to future changes in the Vampire as it is further developed. Not to mention the added complexity of potential issues with older versions of the Indivision software no longer working once the device is updated, potentially leaving users in an awkward position with no usable display.

[lord of time]

ahhh I see your point - ok so its not a deal breaker I have output from the Indi ECS its just not great its needs fine tuning in the software... so Im a little stuck now... I wonder if its worth getting a beat up 500 from ebay or somewhere and dropping the indi in that to configure it to my monitor then drop it back into my vamped 600? a litte messy and probably a bit more expensive as I need to find a 500 but seems the only alternative to removing the vampire, fitting a kickstart rom configing then re fitting vamp?

[Daedalus]

You can never have too many Amigas Seriously though, there might be someone not too far away from you that has an A500 and would let you run it for a once-off config like that. I'm not nearby myself, but there are a few users down that way who are part of the NWAG (North West Amiga Group), maybe it might be worth asking around on their Facebook group.