Lionheart Parallax question

trydowave · 29 May 2011, 12:37

I was just playing this incredible game the other day (one of the amiga's best) and I was wondering. How was the amazing parallax achieved?
I thought the Amiga could only handle 4 colours in bg parallax!

Leffmann · 29 May 2011, 13:09

The game is using 8 color dual playfields, so the foreground is 7 colors and transparent and the background is 8 colors, Lionheart himself is made up of hardware sprites, and they simply change the color values of both the foreground and background graphics on a scanline basis, just like the rainbow backgrounds you see in many games.

Retro1234 · 29 May 2011, 13:28

Sorry if stupid question is realy just the Amiga 8*8 colour dual Playfield
In LionHeart is it a bit like HAM? How many colour Max are on screen?

Ok so youve got a dual playfield and copper affect for the background giving you the affect of more colours in the background but your front screen isnt affected by this? so your tiles for the fore·ground are still basic 8 colour?

Anakirob · 30 May 2011, 15:16

They use a copper colour gradient on the foreground too.

Using the copper, it's possible to have a different palette on each line of the display.

Retro1234 · 30 May 2011, 15:51

Great Game! One of the best. Looking at levels with the Dual Playfield I dont think this is every level? the foreground doesnt seem to use many colours -If you had copper on foreground screen the rear screen would no longer be visable would it?

Not sure - But I dont think the copper would do much for the foreground graphics.

One game I would be intrested in how they did the Parallax is Toki?

Leffmann · 30 May 2011, 17:04

The foreground is still 8 colors in the graphics memory like you say, but they use the Copper to change those 8 colors across the screen, not in a rainbow spectrum of course that would just be annoying, but a brown color down at ground level and as you move higher up it changes into green, grey and blue a few screens higher up.

Also, HAM is very different and is not used in the game. It is very unpractical for anything other than static images.

Retro1234 · 30 May 2011, 17:13

Ok ive got a rip of some tiles and you can see there just 8 colours
I dont know what I was think with HAM

Different colours per scanline or something - Forget that.

Hows Toki Done?

Leffmann · 30 May 2011, 23:48

I took a look at Toki and it appears to be a single 32 color screen where they simply draw the foreground graphics on top of the background, which explains why it plays in a relatively small screen and slow framerate. No use of sprites anywhere.

Retro1234 · 02 June 2011, 15:13

Hows Kid Chaos done?
In interview with Andrew Morris he says " making the 3 colour backgrounds in Kid Chaos appear to be closer to 100 colours"
Does he mean 8?
Or same as toki but the background only uses three colours and can be done quickly
I dont think it uses Sprites I tried disabling them in Debug mode and nothing?
I also havent tried counting the number of colours the tiles use yet.

Thanks

Galahad/FLT · 02 June 2011, 16:21

Kid Chaos is Dual Playfield as far as I know.

Retro1234 · 02 February 2020, 19:27

https://www.everythingamiga.com/2018...kid-chaos.html
This interview with Andrew Morris about Kid Chaos he says ", took a lot of work as there couldn’t be more than 3 colours on one line"

what does he mean 3 colours on one line? anyone got any idea?

jayminer · 02 February 2020, 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro1234

what does he mean 3 colours on one line? anyone got any idea?

Perhaps he meant 3 bitplanes.

chb · 02 February 2020, 21:43

Kid Chaos is 5 bitplanes, dual playfield; meaning 7 colors foreground and 4 colors background. They might have fixed color 0 for the border, so 3 remaining colors that could be freely changed/used for the bg.

Retro1234 · 02 February 2020, 22:10

Why not 8 colours for the background?

chb · 02 February 2020, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro1234

Why not 8 colours for the background?

Mem bandwidth.

d4rk3lf · 02 February 2020, 23:24

Funny thing about Lionheart, is that it wasn't that popular among the amiga people that I lived.... I actually never heard of it.
Then in 1997, I got CD-Rom for my Amiga 1200, and had some CD's full of games, and when I saw it.. I was like : "Wow! This is awesome"!

I played it very often.

And I thought, all these years (until 2014-2015 when I get interested in retro stuff again), that it wasn't that popular anywhere.
Huh... I was wrong

Galahad/FLT · 02 February 2020, 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

Funny thing about Lionheart, is that it wasn't that popular among the amiga people that I lived.... I actually never heard of it.
Then in 1997, I got CD-Rom for my Amiga 1200, and had some CD's full of games, and when I saw it.. I was like : "Wow! This is awesome"!

I played it very often.

And I thought, all these years (until 2014-2015 when I get interested in retro stuff again), that it wasn't that popular anywhere.
Huh... I was wrong

It was definitely popular because I remember the coverdisk demo on a magazine and it gave a flavour of what to expect, but the problem Thalion had, is their distribution absolutely sucked!

It why Ocean, EA and Psygnosis did so well even with crap games, because they had the distribution avenues to get their games everywhere, but when it came down to it, Thalion games were hard to find, same with Rainbow Arts.

Amigajay · 03 February 2020, 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

It was definitely popular because I remember the coverdisk demo on a magazine and it gave a flavour of what to expect, but the problem Thalion had, is their distribution absolutely sucked!

It why Ocean, EA and Psygnosis did so well even with crap games, because they had the distribution avenues to get their games everywhere, but when it came down to it, Thalion games were hard to find, same with Rainbow Arts.

Yeah this! Apart from mail order, my local indie mostly stocked just the big sellers that he knew would sell i.e Team 17, Ocean, Psygnosis etc and the only other shop ‘John Menzies’ did stock quite alot of Amiga games, but the majority were budget titles that sold the most, and again only the major titles that were full price, never saw the likes of No Second Prize or Lionheart boxed, in fact its strange when people post pictures of boxed games as more than likely i have never seen the boxart in my life!

d4rk3lf · 03 February 2020, 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

but the problem Thalion had, is their distribution absolutely sucked!
.

I see...
Yeah, but this was probably not the case here.
You see.. Serbia, in that times, was under heavy economic sanctions, and there was only piracy here. Well, if you think further about it: It was illegal to import anything legal.

But many (or almost all) games finds it's way here, and you could hear from you local (pirate dealer), what's good, what's hit, and what's shit

. In these years, I've never heard of Lionheart.
But then again, it might have been very popular in Serbia, I am just talking about people I knew, and few local dealers... very narrow point of view.

But I am proud, that on my own, I recognized a hit.

dlfrsilver · 03 February 2020, 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

It was definitely popular because I remember the coverdisk demo on a magazine and it gave a flavour of what to expect, but the problem Thalion had, is their distribution absolutely sucked!

It why Ocean, EA and Psygnosis did so well even with crap games, because they had the distribution avenues to get their games everywhere, but when it came down to it, Thalion games were hard to find, same with Rainbow Arts.

Perfectly right. and the guys at Factor still wonder why turrican series just fail...

29 May 2011, 12:37	#1
trydowave Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: N/A Posts: 873	Lionheart Parallax question I was just playing this incredible game the other day (one of the amiga's best) and I was wondering. How was the amazing parallax achieved? I thought the Amiga could only handle 4 colours in bg parallax!

29 May 2011, 13:28	#3
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	Sorry if stupid question is realy just the Amiga 88 colour dual Playfield In LionHeart is it a bit like HAM? How many colour Max are on screen? Ok so youve got a dual playfield and copper affect for the background giving you the affect of more colours in the background but your front screen isnt affected by this? so your tiles for the fore·ground are still basic 8 colour? Last edited by Retro1234; 29 May 2011 at 15:06.*

30 May 2011, 15:51	#5
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	Great Game! One of the best. Looking at levels with the Dual Playfield I dont think this is every level? the foreground doesnt seem to use many colours -If you had copper on foreground screen the rear screen would no longer be visable would it? Not sure - But I dont think the copper would do much for the foreground graphics. One game I would be intrested in how they did the Parallax is Toki? Last edited by Retro1234; 30 May 2011 at 16:00.

02 June 2011, 15:13	#9
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	Hows Kid Chaos done? In interview with Andrew Morris he says " making the 3 colour backgrounds in Kid Chaos appear to be closer to 100 colours" Does he mean 8? Or same as toki but the background only uses three colours and can be done quickly I dont think it uses Sprites I tried disabling them in Debug mode and nothing? I also havent tried counting the number of colours the tiles use yet. Thanks Last edited by Retro1234; 02 June 2011 at 15:20.

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29 May 2011, 13:09	#2
Leffmann Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,269	The game is using 8 color dual playfields, so the foreground is 7 colors and transparent and the background is 8 colors, Lionheart himself is made up of hardware sprites, and they simply change the color values of both the foreground and background graphics on a scanline basis, just like the rainbow backgrounds you see in many games.

30 May 2011, 15:16	#4
Anakirob Unregistered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tasmania Age: 42 Posts: 893	They use a copper colour gradient on the foreground too. Using the copper, it's possible to have a different palette on each line of the display.

30 May 2011, 17:04	#6
Leffmann Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,269	The foreground is still 8 colors in the graphics memory like you say, but they use the Copper to change those 8 colors across the screen, not in a rainbow spectrum of course that would just be annoying, but a brown color down at ground level and as you move higher up it changes into green, grey and blue a few screens higher up. Also, HAM is very different and is not used in the game. It is very unpractical for anything other than static images.

30 May 2011, 17:13	#7
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	Ok ive got a rip of some tiles and you can see there just 8 colours I dont know what I was think with HAM Different colours per scanline or something - Forget that. Hows Toki Done?

30 May 2011, 23:48	#8
Leffmann Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,269	I took a look at Toki and it appears to be a single 32 color screen where they simply draw the foreground graphics on top of the background, which explains why it plays in a relatively small screen and slow framerate. No use of sprites anywhere.

02 June 2011, 16:21	#10
Galahad/FLT Going nowhere Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: United Kingdom Age: 50 Posts: 8,986	Kid Chaos is Dual Playfield as far as I know.

02 February 2020, 19:27	#11
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	https://www.everythingamiga.com/2018...kid-chaos.html This interview with Andrew Morris about Kid Chaos he says ", took a lot of work as there couldn’t be more than 3 colours on one line" what does he mean 3 colours on one line? anyone got any idea?

02 February 2020, 21:43	#13
chb Registered User Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: germany Posts: 439	Kid Chaos is 5 bitplanes, dual playfield; meaning 7 colors foreground and 4 colors background. They might have fixed color 0 for the border, so 3 remaining colors that could be freely changed/used for the bg.

02 February 2020, 22:10	#14
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	Why not 8 colours for the background?

02 February 2020, 23:24	#16
d4rk3lf Registered User Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Novi Sad, Serbia Posts: 1,645	Funny thing about Lionheart, is that it wasn't that popular among the amiga people that I lived.... I actually never heard of it. Then in 1997, I got CD-Rom for my Amiga 1200, and had some CD's full of games, and when I saw it.. I was like : "Wow! This is awesome"! I played it very often. And I thought, all these years (until 2014-2015 when I get interested in retro stuff again), that it wasn't that popular anywhere. Huh... I was wrong

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