17 August 2019, 13:03 | #701 | |
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For a fair comparison you would have to rip out the keyboard, PCMCIA slot, IDE interface, floppy disk drive, ROMs, serial and parallel ports and connectors, change the 68020 to a 68000 and downsize the power supply. Then you could have a smaller and cheaper PCB and case too. And after all that it would still be better than the Megadrive in some respects (24 bit color, hi-res screen modes, more RAM, PCM sound channels etc.). The A1200 wasn't designed to be just a games console, so it's understandable that it didn't sell for the same price as one. But which one was the more expensive to own? Cartridges weren't cheap, and with no way to pirate them economically the total cost of ownership climbed rapidly as more games were purchased. Even if you wanted to stay strictly legal the A1200 had cheaper software available via shareware and PD, older Amiga titles etc. Plus, as a full computer it could be used for jobs that you might otherwise have needed to purchase a PC for. |
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17 August 2019, 13:05 | #702 |
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Comparing Mega Typhoon to MUSHA is hilarious. Just look at both games on youtube. One is a shitty looking, unfinished mess that doesn't even have any music. The other, is one of the most polished and well regarded shooters of all time.
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17 August 2019, 13:10 | #703 |
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This is from the official CD32 developer's notes
Dont know what Nintendo CD is? but Sega 80! sprites So in that respect SNES and MD were a lot more powerful. |
17 August 2019, 13:38 | #704 |
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Never released, but planned (in cooperation with Sony and later Phillips):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_NES_CD-ROM You cannot compare that directly, as the Amiga was not limited to sprites (it has also Blitter objects). But yeah, in general both MD and SNES were better suited for sprite-heavy games. |
17 August 2019, 13:49 | #705 | |||
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The way I look at it, the thing with smooth multi-directional scrolling seems to be more based on 'the games of the time' and the state of the Amiga market in 1985-1987 rather than anything else. Arcade games usually scrolled in only one direction in the early 1980's. Only by the mid 1980's did that change to lots of multidirectional scrollers. On 8-bit consoles you saw something similar. Most games opted for either horizontal or vertical scrolling. Somewhere around 1985-1988 this started to change on the 8-bit consoles and the Amiga followed suit a short while after it had started getting successful with the launch of the A500. Before 1987, the Amiga was a surprisingly unsuccessful platform, with as many games as you'd expect for a system that flopped. Meanwhile, by the time of the SNES/MD, multidirectional games were far more common and thus seen a lot more often on the system. It also helps that neither the SNES nor the MD were initially inundated with quick ports from systems without hardware scrolling. Quote:
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17 August 2019, 13:51 | #706 |
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Yet 'the shitty' one running on the 'underpowered hardware' has many more on screen objects than the other. Which was the point. So the comparison is valid.
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17 August 2019, 13:55 | #707 | ||||
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17 August 2019, 14:01 | #708 | |
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I finished the whole Harkonens campaign on Mega Drive, and before that I played a few mission on my friend PC. Yes, the controls were somewhat trickier then with a mouse, but wasn't that bad, as someone could guess. You get used to it. Later I tried it on my A1200, and if I recall correctly it was slower then megadrive version. Of course, I loved my A1200 much more then any console , but this particular game, I felt like genesis version was better polished. |
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17 August 2019, 14:02 | #709 |
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Not really. Having more on screen sprites doesn't count for much if the game sucks. Shoot em ups on the Amiga were crap, plain and simple. Couldn't even manage a 50hz port of R-Type, for god's sake. The PC-Engine did it with ease with an 8 bit CPU.
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17 August 2019, 14:05 | #710 | |
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I think it was tech specs because I loved my A500 but then I got a 60HZ SNES in about 1992 and I hardly bought another Amiga game. Games like F-Zero and SFII (not the PAL version which was slow) and Final Fight were just stunning at the time. I would have bought a A1200 if it blew me away. As it was I just kept my A500 to do programming on and soon saw the A1200 wasn't going to take off so wasn't worth buying even as an upgrade. The A1200 could basically do something comparable to the MD and SNES but a few years later. I still think Commodore should have just given AGA a load of 16 colour sprites. 128 of them would be good. The Neo Geo can only display sprites (it has no backgrounds apart from the score overlay). Sprites are everything and they free up the CPU. That's it - just extra sprites and 2 more sound channels. |
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17 August 2019, 14:06 | #711 | |
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Well, I have no time for that stuff. I'll come back when you're ready to be a bit more realistic. |
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17 August 2019, 14:07 | #712 | |
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I loved R-Type on the Amiga. It was the best version apart from the PCE one |
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17 August 2019, 14:12 | #713 |
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17 August 2019, 14:14 | #714 | |
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I'm not going to debate this, I have better things to do. |
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17 August 2019, 14:15 | #715 |
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17 August 2019, 14:15 | #716 | ||
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17 August 2019, 14:17 | #717 | |
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I'll put you ignore from now on, I really can't be bothered reading and replying to your 'points'. All it does is create a bunch of stupid posts between us that no one should have to read. |
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17 August 2019, 14:22 | #718 |
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I don't see how making accurate statements is trolling. If you want to believe the Amiga had good shoot em ups, then that's your choice. But the reality is, they were an absolute joke compared to what the Megadrive and PCE had to offer.
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17 August 2019, 14:26 | #719 | ||||
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I'm not a megadrive programmer but you must be able to multiplex MD sprites too? The fact they haven't done it proves my point - that MD coders didn't bother optimising every cycle because they had a lot of sprites to play with already. On the Amiga you have to spend time using all sorts of tricks. A lot of Amiga games didn't even use sprites because they couldn't be bothered learn how to do even that! Musha is not a one off - Mega Typhoon is. Most schmups on Amiga don't even run 50fps. It's like saying Shadow of the Beast (which looks amazing) is an example of all Amiga arcade games - it's not because it's designed in a very specific way around the hardware with a lot of restrictions. When Relections made the sequels - they added more gameplay + freedom and couldn't keep all the fancy tech and had to reduce the colours a lot. Quote:
But aren't consoles character (tile) based? So you just smooth-scroll the screen a bit then redraw the whole screen (using internal map data) with hardware? That's what I always assumed. I'm too lazy to look up how it's done! Quote:
I don't get what you mean about blitting with hardware scrolling because you missed out steps where you remove the bobs or restore the background. I didn't call out any Amiga game that it does worse than consoles. I was saying the A1200 could make a game to the standard of a Megadrive game. You then produced 3 games that showed a lot of objects on screen at 50fps. Every scrolling Megadrive game runs at 50fps. I mean I could probably produce 3 that don't run at 50fps... |
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17 August 2019, 14:31 | #720 | |
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