Slow performance with AmigaOS 3.1.4 in WinUAE 4.2.1

matsp888 · 29 June 2019, 10:40

I've found some example code for using outline fonts and the separate Bullet font scaling engine (bullet.library) in Workbench 2.1 and up in a 1992 Amiga Mail article, which i've "enhanced" somewhat. I recently noticed that the rendering is very slow in AmigaOS 3.1.4 compared to e.g. AmigaOS 3.1, for some reason. I have only run WinUAE in VirtualBox in Linux, but I notice the relative difference in speed nevertheless. Now not many people use 3.1.4 in WinUAE, I guess, but I still wanted to mention it. The "BulletExamples" package can be found at Aminet for testing.

svin83 · 11 January 2020, 01:33

Probably off topic, but that sounds like an inefficient solution to Amiga emulation.

Emulating complex chipsets on top of all those layers of abstraction and virtualization is IMHO like asking for higher latencies and lower performance.

Toni Wilen · 11 January 2020, 09:22

Due to various reasons, I don't have and won't use 3.1.4. (and perhaps it works as designed and is slower everywhere)

StevenJGore · 11 January 2020, 19:56

I use it with WinUAE with a 3.1.4 ROM too, it works fine as far as I can tell. No speed problems when JIT is on.

What's the reason for not using it, Toni? I've been out of the Amiga scene for a year or two until recently, have I missed something?

svin83 · 12 January 2020, 08:14

Since I left Micro$oft for Linux a few years back, I currently use both official builds and dev-builds of FS-UAE.

Most of the emulation code is IIRC ported/adapted from the available WinUAE source code. I don't know if rom-loading and initial startup routines are identical/similar.

Emulator startup/init is very slow with 3.1.4-A1200.rom. Both cold boot and reboot affected.

WB 3.1 & KS 3.1:
Completes boot ~2 seconds after I click start.

OS 3.1.4.1 & KS 3.1.4-A1200:
Seemingly just hangs on launch. After ~10 sec. It suddenly starts booting.

Toni Wilen · 12 January 2020, 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by svin83

OS 3.1.4.1 & KS 3.1.4-A1200:
Seemingly just hangs on launch. After ~10 sec. It suddenly starts booting.

This is probably mainboard IDE related and most likely exact same happens with real hardware. (OS3.9BB2 has similar delay without disabling scsi.device patch)

malko · 12 January 2020, 13:02

I have a similar slow boot issue with WinUAE 4.0.1 & ROM+OS 3.1.4 : If I use a 3.1 config without any HD or floppy inserted, change the ROM to 3.1.4 and start the emulation, the time it takes to display the "insert disk" animation is much longer with 3.1.4 than with 3.1 (A2000 or A1200, no difference).
Don't know but suppose it's because the ROM is not recognized by WinUAE. Maybe further checks/loops are done ???

gulliver · 12 January 2020, 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by malko

Maybe further checks/loops are done ???

Yes. The IDE delay IS REQUIRED to properly comply with the standard specification. Reducing it would otherwise mean less reliability in detecting some drives.

A few times it was not implemented correctly, and it was faster. Kickstart 3.0 was an extreme example of that: for some drives to be detected you had to reset the amiga after boot to give them more time to spin up and be ready.

malko · 12 January 2020, 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by gulliver

Yes. The IDE delay IS REQUIRED to properly comply with the standard specification. Reducing it would otherwise mean less reliability in detecting some drives.

A few times it was not implemented correctly, and it was faster. Kickstart 3.0 was an extreme example of that: for some drives to be detected you had to reset the amiga after boot to give them more time to spin up and be ready.

Oh, I see. So there is nothing to do with the 3.1.4 ROM "not being recognised" by WinUAE.

This is what happens when you've we've been badly accustomed with previous ROMs

.
Thanks Gulliver.

@StevenJGore : part of the answer to your question is, I think, available in the above link

Ami · 12 January 2020, 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by gulliver

Reducing it would otherwise mean less reliability in detecting some drives.

But some (most?) drives are detected reliably, thus additional delay is unnecessary. I propose, this delay should be configurable by user.

Rotareneg · 12 January 2020, 18:23

Since no Amiga (besides the CDTV and CD32) have non-volatile memory to store such settings, that's not possible.

patrik · 12 January 2020, 21:13

All Amigas with RTC does actually have the ability to store some bits in its memory.

Rotareneg · 12 January 2020, 21:42

Interesting, I did not know that. Looked it up and there was even a bit reserved for this purpose, to set the timeout value for SCSI device selection to either 128 ms or 2 seconds.

malko · 12 January 2020, 22:01

^ cool news indeed.

Rotareneg · 12 January 2020, 23:31

Checked a bit more and it depends on the clock chip used. A3000 and A4000 used a RP5C01 which includes 104 bits of RAM, while the MSM6242B on the A2000 and A501 was just the clock. Looking at A1200 expansion cards, some used the RP5C01 but others used various RTC chips without RAM.

Minuous · 13 January 2020, 03:15

Oddly, WinUAE seems to only support 96 bits rather than 104.

29 June 2019, 10:40	#1
matsp888 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Gothenburg, Sweden Posts: 27	Slow performance with AmigaOS 3.1.4 in WinUAE 4.2.1 I've found some example code for using outline fonts and the separate Bullet font scaling engine (bullet.library) in Workbench 2.1 and up in a 1992 Amiga Mail article, which i've "enhanced" somewhat. I recently noticed that the rendering is very slow in AmigaOS 3.1.4 compared to e.g. AmigaOS 3.1, for some reason. I have only run WinUAE in VirtualBox in Linux, but I notice the relative difference in speed nevertheless. Now not many people use 3.1.4 in WinUAE, I guess, but I still wanted to mention it. The "BulletExamples" package can be found at Aminet for testing. Last edited by matsp888; 29 June 2019 at 10:48.

12 January 2020, 08:14	#5
svin83 Meditating Guru Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Trondheim / Norway Posts: 32	Since I left Micro$oft for Linux a few years back, I currently use both official builds and dev-builds of FS-UAE. Most of the emulation code is IIRC ported/adapted from the available WinUAE source code. I don't know if rom-loading and initial startup routines are identical/similar. Emulator startup/init is very slow with 3.1.4-A1200.rom. Both cold boot and reboot affected. WB 3.1 & KS 3.1: Completes boot ~2 seconds after I click start. OS 3.1.4.1 & KS 3.1.4-A1200: Seemingly just hangs on launch. After ~10 sec. It suddenly starts booting. Last edited by svin83; 12 January 2020 at 08:20.

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11 January 2020, 01:33	#2
svin83 Meditating Guru Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Trondheim / Norway Posts: 32	Probably off topic, but that sounds like an inefficient solution to Amiga emulation. Emulating complex chipsets on top of all those layers of abstraction and virtualization is IMHO like asking for higher latencies and lower performance.

11 January 2020, 09:22	#3
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,502	Due to various reasons, I don't have and won't use 3.1.4. (and perhaps it works as designed and is slower everywhere)

11 January 2020, 19:56	#4
StevenJGore Amiga Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: North Yorkshire, UK Age: 46 Posts: 726	I use it with WinUAE with a 3.1.4 ROM too, it works fine as far as I can tell. No speed problems when JIT is on. What's the reason for not using it, Toni? I've been out of the Amiga scene for a year or two until recently, have I missed something?

12 January 2020, 13:02	#7
malko Ex nihilo nihil Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: CH Posts: 4,856	I have a similar slow boot issue with WinUAE 4.0.1 & ROM+OS 3.1.4 : If I use a 3.1 config without any HD or floppy inserted, change the ROM to 3.1.4 and start the emulation, the time it takes to display the "insert disk" animation is much longer with 3.1.4 than with 3.1 (A2000 or A1200, no difference). Don't know but suppose it's because the ROM is not recognized by WinUAE. Maybe further checks/loops are done ???

12 January 2020, 18:23	#11
Rotareneg Registered User Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Kansas, USA Posts: 324	Since no Amiga (besides the CDTV and CD32) have non-volatile memory to store such settings, that's not possible.

12 January 2020, 21:13	#12
patrik Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Umeå Age: 43 Posts: 922	All Amigas with RTC does actually have the ability to store some bits in its memory.

12 January 2020, 21:42	#13
Rotareneg Registered User Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Kansas, USA Posts: 324	Interesting, I did not know that. Looked it up and there was even a bit reserved for this purpose, to set the timeout value for SCSI device selection to either 128 ms or 2 seconds.

12 January 2020, 22:01	#14
malko Ex nihilo nihil Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: CH Posts: 4,856	^ cool news indeed.

12 January 2020, 23:31	#15
Rotareneg Registered User Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Kansas, USA Posts: 324	Checked a bit more and it depends on the clock chip used. A3000 and A4000 used a RP5C01 which includes 104 bits of RAM, while the MSM6242B on the A2000 and A501 was just the clock. Looking at A1200 expansion cards, some used the RP5C01 but others used various RTC chips without RAM.

13 January 2020, 03:15	#16
Minuous Coder/webmaster/gamer Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Canberra/Australia Posts: 2,630	Oddly, WinUAE seems to only support 96 bits rather than 104.

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