Motorola 68060

[cloverskull]

I go back and forth on the 060 for the A1200 thing. Honestly I have loved using an otherwise "stock" A1200 with a Blizzard 1230. Just using AGA on an Amiga CRT and playing WHDLoad games. It's awesome.

But...there's this nagging voice in my head that always wants more. That voice is currently winning which is why I'm migrating to a TF1260 and some clockport expansions (USB, sound, etc). I guess that's the way it goes

[grelbfarlk]

Originally Posted by pandy71

Looks like 68060 slowly reaching point 1500$

No it isn't. If you want an 060 you can find one for around $250, look on Amibay. Maybe in 20 years it will be $1500.

Originally Posted by NovaCoder

I'm currently building a new A1200 for retro gaming and I'm not really interesting in another 060 card. The TF1260 looks great but the cost of a decent 060 is way too much for me.

I'm sure that someone would easily donate a 50Mhz 060 to you, or even a whole system.

[klx300r]

Originally Posted by NovaCoder

...

If I wanted to build a 'powerful' A1200 then I'd just go with a PiStorm (bare metal edition). Personally I'm thinking of just sticking a TF1230 in there, that will allow it to do everything I want with it (apart from playing 060 demos )

you won’t regret getting a PiStorm32 as it's the ultimate 040 accelerator EVER! Runs all my fav 060 demos amazing and best part is it's getting better with ever firmware release and doesn't mess with anything else in your Amiga...it's just a really great & fast 040 accelerator

[alenppc]

Originally Posted by NovaCoder

I'm currently building a new A1200 for retro gaming and I'm not really interesting in another 060 card. The TF1260 looks great but the cost of a decent 060 is way too much for me.

Don't underestimate the power of the LC060 running at 94 MHz... You can even play your port of SoftFloat Quake on it... well, mostly... and SoftIEEE will take care of the rest... but if that sort of thing would interest you in porting over PocketQuake just PM me and you'll get a free 1260 from me... Very grateful for all of your efforts!

[pandy71]

Originally Posted by grelbfarlk

No it isn't. If you want an 060 you can find one for around $250, look on Amibay. Maybe in 20 years it will be $1500.

well, yes, soon it will reach 1500$ but if you wish to wait and do some search then there are opportunities with even 225$ (but you may need to accept some limitations like no FPU or old mask so some bugs and no OC possibility).
There is a chance that in 20 years no one will give a s*t about Amiga and 68060.

[Locutus]

Originally Posted by pandy71

There is a chance that in 20 years no one will give a s*t about Amiga and 68060.

Not just a chance, the oldest Amiga fans are already dying already off. Time will move on and the younger ones of us will also be gone.


After that, alas the Amiga is a historical footnote in computing as it has modern descendants.

[wiz12]

Originally Posted by Locutus

Not just a chance, the oldest Amiga fans are already dying already off. Time will move on and the younger ones of us will also be gone.


After that, alas the Amiga is a historical footnote in computing as it has modern descendants.

We could always try to pass on our passion to our kiddies or would they considered it uncool or old fashioned? Heck, they don't even know what Star Trek is but such is life.

[Calabazam]

Actually, rev6 CPUs have peaked up to 400 EUR but some have gone for less than that at Amibay recently. The LC rev4 cpu is still affordable circa 75 EUR, while rev1/rev5 could be around 200-250 EUR.
Expect the rev6 to be in more demand when TF4060/Warp4060 become available.
Then, that would be it for the 68060 because it is unlikely to have better accelerators based on it, and FPGA/Pistorm will be the future.

[NovaCoder]

Originally Posted by alenppc

Don't underestimate the power of the LC060 running at 94 MHz... You can even play your port of SoftFloat Quake on it... well, mostly... and SoftIEEE will take care of the rest... but if that sort of thing would interest you in porting over PocketQuake just PM me and you'll get a free 1260 from me... Very grateful for all of your efforts!

Thanks mate, much appreciated

Originally Posted by klx300r

you won’t regret getting a PiStorm32 as it's the ultimate 040 accelerator EVER! Runs all my fav 060 demos amazing and best part is it's getting better with ever firmware release and doesn't mess with anything else in your Amiga...it's just a really great & fast 040 accelerator

Yes it is a good option but I might just keep it simple this time around.

[VladR]

Originally Posted by wiz12

We could always try to pass on our passion to our kiddies or would they considered it uncool or old fashioned? Heck, they don't even know what Star Trek is but such is life.

You CANNOT pass down life experience. That's not how life works.

How do you expect them to have the same intensity of an emotional attachment if they haven't lived through the decades that we have ?

Yes, you can TRY to show it to them, but at best, it'll be just an obscure "GrandPa story" from the days of old when dinosaurs roamed the Earth freely...

[VladR]

Originally Posted by pandy71

There is a chance that in 20 years no one will give a s*t about Amiga and 68060.

But I live now. Not in future.

You don't know how much life is left for you. Do I have 20 yrs left at 48? I doubt it given my genetics and lifestyle.

I want to experience Rev6 060 at home in next 2-3 yrs. 20 yrs from now, even if by some medical miracle I am technically still alive, I might not recognize WTF Amiga even is in the first place

[alenppc]

Originally Posted by NovaCoder

Thanks mate, much appreciated

I tried to PM you, but it says your inbox is full, let me know!

[NovaCoder]

Originally Posted by alenppc

I tried to PM you, but it says your inbox is full, let me know!

Yep my inbox is always full, yeo I'll PM you thanks.

[Akiko]

Originally Posted by pandy71

there is a chance that in 20 years no one will give a s*t about amiga and 68060.

I can remember a forum comment from about 20 years or so ago from ironically someone who I believe is actually contributing in this thread, as I recall he predicted that in 20 years or so the price of Amiga hardware would probably significantly drop, for the exact reasons I can't recall.

I do remember looking forward to being 40 years old and living in this Utopia of dirt cheap Amiga hardware, surrounded in a sea of A3000T's etc. The reality is those were actually the days of *dirt cheap* Amiga hardware, when you could actually pick up an A3000T for £500, an A4000D for significantly less, and an A1200 for next to nothing.

If 40 something year old Amigans are willing to pay £3000+ for some big box Amiga's today, I dread to think what a 60 something year old Amigan with his/her mortgage paid off will pay 20 years from now.

[VladR]

Originally Posted by Akiko

If 40 something year old Amigans are willing to pay £3000+ for some big box Amiga's today, I dread to think what a 60 something year old Amigan with his/her mortgage paid off will pay 20 years from now.

Exactly. Eventually, the Feeling of Mortality hits all of us and then you realize money is irrelevant (as long as you have enough to survive).

I've paid $1,700 for my Falcon with a broken keyboard and case on eBay and that was almost a decade ago when everyone thought it's nuts to pay more than $700 for it.

But there's a point where you say "screw that, I'm getting it no matter what..."


I do, however, [perhaps naively] believe, that 20 yrs from now they'll still hover comfortably under $20,000

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by VladR

How do you expect them to have the same intensity of an emotional attachment if they haven't lived through the decades that we have ?

They will build up that emotional attachment. To them it will be a new experience, just like it was for us 30 years ago.

In the 1970's I got into vintage radio. The older it was the better. I never got my hands on a pre-war TRF set as they very rare and expensive, but I had lots of fun fixing up sets that were made in the 40's and 50's - manufactured well before I was born. Imagine the excitement of getting an old set going after it had been in a barn for 30 years gathering dust and bird droppings. Tune it to a retro AM music station and imagine being back in those times.

Home computers from the 80's and early 90's have a similar appeal, but the same cannot be said for more modern PCs. The technology became too advanced and too difficult for a hobbyist to work on, as well as not significantly different from modern PCs to be worth reviving. An old Pentium PC is just an under-powered PC, a ZX Spectrum, C64 or Amiga 500 is something else. Young people are getting onto these old machines because it's a totally different experience from the technology we use today.

This is why I am finding attempts to make Amigas more powerful a bit counter-productive. The people who want that are those whose long familiarity with the Amiga has jaded them. They have an emotional attachment, but that isn't enough - they want to rekindle the excitement they felt in the early days when it was all new.

The truth is, we are what is killing interest in the Amiga among younger people - hoarding it and driving prices up, raising the specs required to run newly developed software so people getting into the scene can't get the hardware they need. Hopefully when we die some of that hoard will make its way to others who can appreciate it more.

[VladR]

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott

They will build up that emotional attachment. To them it will be a new experience, just like it was for us 30 years ago.

But it could not possibly be the same "new experience" as it was for us. It was next-gen for us, not retro. Each announcement about new resolutions, more colors, more MHz - it was a WOW moment, browsing those articles in magazines, dreaming of the screenshots being fully fluid 3D engines (that basically didn't happen at the time).

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott

Young people are getting onto these old machines because it's a totally different experience from the technology we use today.

From my experience with kids today, the reason they get into is because some streamer with 5M views per vid thought it was cool. So they mimic that behavior "to be in on it".
Yes, that was a sweeping generalization on my part, but I was also exposed to a lot of those vids recently, so I am absolutely jaded here having passively listened to the vids (in the background while coding in the living room).
I really dislike the "modern" attitude towards the Jaguar and how every bloody streaming teenager thinks it's cool to constantly defecate on Jaguar.

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott

This is why I am finding attempts to make Amigas more powerful a bit counter-productive. The people who want that are those whose long familiarity with the Amiga has jaded them. They have an emotional attachment, but that isn't enough - they want to rekindle the excitement they felt in the early days when it was all new.

Of course we're jaded ! We're old enough to not have the excuse of naivete that youth still has!

I do, however, truly appreciate you can voice your disagreement with the "MOAR POWAH FRONT" without implicit judgement (most people can't and I myself have the problem doing that given my strong emotions on the subject)

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott

Hopefully when we die some of that hoard will make its way to others who can appreciate it more.

Well, most people at this point understand that eBay is the place to get rid of "grandpa's junk", so [for the most part] it'll certainly get into the hands of eBay scalpels.

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott

The truth is, we are what is killing interest in the Amiga among younger people - hoarding it and driving prices up, raising the specs required to run newly developed software so people getting into the scene can't get the hardware they need.

I very rarely use the word entitlement, but I strongly believe we're more entitled to the retro HW than the young generation born in '80s+.
Thus, the moment the price of some component reaches the threshold of our own wallets, we jump in (like me, spending almost $2k ~10 yrs ago on a Falcon with a broken keyboard as I didn't want to risk missing out on it and having regrets again - that was the defining moment for me when I for the first time realized you can put a price tag on regret)

[cloverskull]

Ha! I'm hoarding my Amiga gear because 1) I like it and 2) I'll sell it off one day and retire to my own tropical island with the proceeds.

[Apollo68080]

Originally Posted by alex68

An 060 accelerator card can raise the clock up to 100 MHz and the mips are 78. I also read that an 060 at 110 MHz gets 219 mips? Is that true? Can someone explain it to me? greetings

MIPS, what means MIPS?


MIPS could mean many different things.
1) It could mean Million instructions per second.


When your CPU support hundreds of different instructions that take different long to execute - how do you then count this?


A fast instruction on the Motorola 68060 CPU could take as little as 0.5 clock cycle.
A more complex instruction like divide could take 38 clock cycle...


If you look at a 50Mhz 68060 CPU ..

and count the fastest possible instruction then it could have peak 100 Mips
if you look at the slower instruction then you only get 1.3 Mips




What is correct now?






For sure you see the problem..
When people speak about MIPS often they mean is the execution of the Dhrystone test and compare the result the computer got to the result the VAX system got
- which is defined as 1 VAX MIPS.


In theory this sound like a much more meaningfull idea to measure speed.


Of course in reality there are some pitfalls:


1) some test claim to measure Dhrystone and Mips but not do this.
Sysinfo for example has a totally different code running as test that has nothing todo with Dhrystone nor with VAX Mips.
Another problem is that the Dhrystone test is C code and very subjective to compiler tweaks. This means how you compile the test can influence the result a lot.
A good compile could be score easily twice as high as a bad compile.

[Karlos]

MIP: Meaningless Indicator of Performance

This is why I prefer benchmarks of actual software, i.e. the things you'll actually use.