PPC-Warp3D games speedup - fullscreen in window-mode! - Page 5

Bamiga2002 · 30 January 2013, 19:40

Have you set AHI in Wipeout startup? Have you got AHI v4.18 installed? Use that version, set in AHI prefs CPU usage 12% and use freq 11025 "Paula fast 8bit stereo" (1 channel). That's the settings I use.

CrashMidnick · 30 January 2013, 19:40

What's you'r RAM : 50 or 60ns ?

Ok will try but AHI always crash the game at a moment.

Bamiga2002 · 30 January 2013, 19:41

I'm using 60ns RAM and also set 60ns in BlizzardPPC bootmenu.

CrashMidnick · 30 January 2013, 20:02

Me too.

No différence with AHI. Very strange. Where you get around 20, I have 16...

Bamiga2002 · 30 January 2013, 21:10

Do you use CopyMem/UtilPatch?
Strange Quake I/II results seem the same anyway.

CrashMidnick · 30 January 2013, 21:19

No, should I?

Yes very strange but it is the only game that crash when overclocking my 060 to 66, it crash with AHI. This game is a pain on my system.

Maybe a value is wrong in my warpos/mediator config.

Oh and I have poseidon at boot...

Bamiga2002 · 30 January 2013, 21:53

CopyMem/UtilPatch are good to have, they speed up the system. I don't get over 60Mhz myself working stable here, maybe because of the SCSI on PPC card, maybe the card rev...

Poseidon shouldn't interfere, but I'd keep it deactivated if there's no use of it ATM. Here's my config settings for Mediator, P96 and WarpOS:

CrashMidnick · 30 January 2013, 22:29

No SCSI onboard, and I have two BPPC (1 rev0 and 1 rev2) : same behaviour

I think it is a PSU problem. We need to inject +5v directly in the regulator. We cannot do that with the stock heatsink as wires needed push it up and the PPC does not make contact anymore with the heatsink... so dangerous. Personaly I do not want to put a modded heatsing has they are tall and it is needed to cut the tower (I think).

Ok will check all your parameters tomorrow. Thanks !

CrashMidnick · 31 January 2013, 01:39

Ok I have tried everything that I can :

Reinstall AHI 4.18
Set all parameters like yours (only overclock=180 was different from my system in the Voodoo monitor, why did you put that ??)
Install copymem and utilpatch
Tried different Warp3D/mediator envs...
Tried different simms, even 50ns ones
Tried on two different BPPC's

I only get one more FPS.

On the 2nd lap you are always between 20-23... I have 14-17

Looking again and again your video, I have less than 6fps compared to you ! it is huge !

Is it possible to give me an exact copy of your system (HDF) and upload it somewhere so that I can try it ?
Could you tell me the value of the quartz you are using to set the PPC@330 ? 66 ?

If someone else can test and post his/her results it could be great !

Thanks

Bamiga2002 · 31 January 2013, 06:26

Strange thing there, and some extensive testing! I'm using a 60Mhz crystal for both PPC and 68k. Are you using WB 3.1?

CrashMidnick · 31 January 2013, 13:14

No WB3.9.

We do not have the same FSB as I use a 66Mhz oscillator to set my BPPC@330. Maybe wipeout needs more CPU frenquency rather than fast memory access.

Do not upload anything for the moment, I need to check this before

Bamiga2002 · 31 January 2013, 14:22

OK, because I have multiplier of 5.5x on my card as described here:
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/giorsign/overclock.html

With your 66Mhz osc and total of 330Mhz it should infact be faster.

CrashMidnick · 31 January 2013, 14:47

What I have Understand reading things here and there :

Higher FSB (my case) = Fast acccess to RAM, low CPU frequency
Lower FSB (your case) = Low access to RAM, Fast CPU frequency

If higher FSB resulted always in better performance, I think that Stachu or Cosmos would set them to x3 coef, in all cases

If Wipeout has been coded especially around CPU access (which was the case of most PC games at this time), it will results in lower fps on my system. Well it is my theory for the moment.

The more I think the more I would say that if there was something wrong on my PPC setup (software), I would have bad performance on the other games.

CrashMidnick · 31 January 2013, 23:28

Ok the files you gave me by PM did the job, now a good 20fps average on Wipeout ! Incredible. I even saw quickly 45fps in a tunnel

By setting up AHI quality a little lower I got 22.3 on Quake 2

Bamiga2002 · 01 February 2013, 06:30

Good good!

I suspected this...
I think RAM access speed is important too vs. cpu freq, but I don't know the definitive answer: what is the golden balance between these two to achieve max performance?

Bamiga2002 · 01 February 2013, 07:27

The funny thing is that I don't even know why all this is faster in window-mode, but the fact that changing WB to the same mode as the game maybe takes some GFX-load off because there's no screenmode-conversion in the background(?). I'd really like someone gave a technical explanation of this.

But enjoy the speed CrashMidnick!

and join the Blizzard PPC club

CrashMidnick · 01 February 2013, 10:30

Ok, joined

Yes it is strange that windowed modes are faster than Fullscreen modes...

I tried with AHI SB128 8bit stereo = same results as Paula but you have full audio on one output

CrashMidnick · 01 February 2013, 13:37

Ho hum, I enjoy the speed mate, I enjoy it so much

Every PPC user should try fullwin, just awesome. If you reach the goal to remove the down border on all games, it will be perfect

Bamiga2002 · 01 February 2013, 14:17

There shouldn't be any borders except in Wipeout 2097 if you're using the plain Workbench window setup without GUI enchancers like AfA or VisualPrefs or didn't modify window dimensions. Could you perhaps post a pic/video of the border problem you're having? A pic of WB and a game running? Is the problem with all games or just Quake?

CrashMidnick · 01 February 2013, 15:12

I am using visual prefs, will try without.

Yes i will post pics.

30 January 2013, 21:19	#86
CrashMidnick Registered User Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: FRANCE Posts: 222	No, should I? Yes very strange but it is the only game that crash when overclocking my 060 to 66, it crash with AHI. This game is a pain on my system. Maybe a value is wrong in my warpos/mediator config. Oh and I have poseidon at boot... Last edited by prowler; 31 January 2013 at 20:35. Reason: Back-to-back posts merged.

30 January 2013, 21:53	#87
Bamiga2002 BlizzardPPC'less Join Date: May 2004 Location: Finland Age: 46 Posts: 3,210	CopyMem/UtilPatch are good to have, they speed up the system. I don't get over 60Mhz myself working stable here, maybe because of the SCSI on PPC card, maybe the card rev... Poseidon shouldn't interfere, but I'd keep it deactivated if there's no use of it ATM. Here's my config settings for Mediator, P96 and WarpOS: Attached Thumbnails

31 January 2013, 14:47	#93
CrashMidnick Registered User Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: FRANCE Posts: 222	What I have Understand reading things here and there : Higher FSB (my case) = Fast acccess to RAM, low CPU frequency Lower FSB (your case) = Low access to RAM, Fast CPU frequency If higher FSB resulted always in better performance, I think that Stachu or Cosmos would set them to x3 coef, in all cases If Wipeout has been coded especially around CPU access (which was the case of most PC games at this time), it will results in lower fps on my system. Well it is my theory for the moment. The more I think the more I would say that if there was something wrong on my PPC setup (software), I would have bad performance on the other games. Last edited by CrashMidnick; 31 January 2013 at 16:10.

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30 January 2013, 19:40	#81
Bamiga2002 BlizzardPPC'less Join Date: May 2004 Location: Finland Age: 46 Posts: 3,210	Have you set AHI in Wipeout startup? Have you got AHI v4.18 installed? Use that version, set in AHI prefs CPU usage 12% and use freq 11025 "Paula fast 8bit stereo" (1 channel). That's the settings I use.

30 January 2013, 19:41	#83
Bamiga2002 BlizzardPPC'less Join Date: May 2004 Location: Finland Age: 46 Posts: 3,210	I'm using 60ns RAM and also set 60ns in BlizzardPPC bootmenu.

30 January 2013, 20:02	#84
CrashMidnick Registered User Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: FRANCE Posts: 222	Me too. No différence with AHI. Very strange. Where you get around 20, I have 16...

30 January 2013, 21:10	#85
Bamiga2002 BlizzardPPC'less Join Date: May 2004 Location: Finland Age: 46 Posts: 3,210	Do you use CopyMem/UtilPatch? Strange Quake I/II results seem the same anyway.

30 January 2013, 22:29	#88
CrashMidnick Registered User Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: FRANCE Posts: 222	No SCSI onboard, and I have two BPPC (1 rev0 and 1 rev2) : same behaviour I think it is a PSU problem. We need to inject +5v directly in the regulator. We cannot do that with the stock heatsink as wires needed push it up and the PPC does not make contact anymore with the heatsink... so dangerous. Personaly I do not want to put a modded heatsing has they are tall and it is needed to cut the tower (I think). Ok will check all your parameters tomorrow. Thanks !

31 January 2013, 01:39	#89
CrashMidnick Registered User Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: FRANCE Posts: 222	Ok I have tried everything that I can : Reinstall AHI 4.18 Set all parameters like yours (only overclock=180 was different from my system in the Voodoo monitor, why did you put that ??) Install copymem and utilpatch Tried different Warp3D/mediator envs... Tried different simms, even 50ns ones Tried on two different BPPC's I only get one more FPS. On the 2nd lap you are always between 20-23... I have 14-17 Looking again and again your video, I have less than 6fps compared to you ! it is huge ! Is it possible to give me an exact copy of your system (HDF) and upload it somewhere so that I can try it ? Could you tell me the value of the quartz you are using to set the PPC@330 ? 66 ? If someone else can test and post his/her results it could be great ! Thanks

31 January 2013, 06:26	#90
Bamiga2002 BlizzardPPC'less Join Date: May 2004 Location: Finland Age: 46 Posts: 3,210	Strange thing there, and some extensive testing! I'm using a 60Mhz crystal for both PPC and 68k. Are you using WB 3.1?

31 January 2013, 13:14	#91
CrashMidnick Registered User Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: FRANCE Posts: 222	No WB3.9. We do not have the same FSB as I use a 66Mhz oscillator to set my BPPC@330. Maybe wipeout needs more CPU frenquency rather than fast memory access. Do not upload anything for the moment, I need to check this before

31 January 2013, 14:22	#92
Bamiga2002 BlizzardPPC'less Join Date: May 2004 Location: Finland Age: 46 Posts: 3,210	OK, because I have multiplier of 5.5x on my card as described here: http://xoomer.virgilio.it/giorsign/overclock.html With your 66Mhz osc and total of 330Mhz it should infact be faster.

31 January 2013, 23:28	#94
CrashMidnick Registered User Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: FRANCE Posts: 222	Ok the files you gave me by PM did the job, now a good 20fps average on Wipeout ! Incredible. I even saw quickly 45fps in a tunnel By setting up AHI quality a little lower I got 22.3 on Quake 2

01 February 2013, 06:30	#95
Bamiga2002 BlizzardPPC'less Join Date: May 2004 Location: Finland Age: 46 Posts: 3,210	Good good! I suspected this... I think RAM access speed is important too vs. cpu freq, but I don't know the definitive answer: what is the golden balance between these two to achieve max performance?

01 February 2013, 07:27	#96
Bamiga2002 BlizzardPPC'less Join Date: May 2004 Location: Finland Age: 46 Posts: 3,210	The funny thing is that I don't even know why all this is faster in window-mode, but the fact that changing WB to the same mode as the game maybe takes some GFX-load off because there's no screenmode-conversion in the background(?). I'd really like someone gave a technical explanation of this. But enjoy the speed CrashMidnick! and join the Blizzard PPC club

01 February 2013, 10:30	#97
CrashMidnick Registered User Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: FRANCE Posts: 222	Ok, joined Yes it is strange that windowed modes are faster than Fullscreen modes... I tried with AHI SB128 8bit stereo = same results as Paula but you have full audio on one output

01 February 2013, 13:37	#98
CrashMidnick Registered User Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: FRANCE Posts: 222	Ho hum, I enjoy the speed mate, I enjoy it so much Every PPC user should try fullwin, just awesome. If you reach the goal to remove the down border on all games, it will be perfect

01 February 2013, 14:17	#99
Bamiga2002 BlizzardPPC'less Join Date: May 2004 Location: Finland Age: 46 Posts: 3,210	There shouldn't be any borders except in Wipeout 2097 if you're using the plain Workbench window setup without GUI enchancers like AfA or VisualPrefs or didn't modify window dimensions. Could you perhaps post a pic/video of the border problem you're having? A pic of WB and a game running? Is the problem with all games or just Quake?

01 February 2013, 15:12	#100
CrashMidnick Registered User Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: FRANCE Posts: 222	I am using visual prefs, will try without. Yes i will post pics.

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