English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Retrogaming General Discussion

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 17 May 2017, 00:08   #1
lordofchaos
TinkerTailorContentMaker

lordofchaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bedfordshire
Age: 39
Posts: 1,022
Machine Wars - Fight!

I thought it might be a good idea to have a dedicated thread to those "machine wars" that seem to crop up during off-topic discussions. So why not use this place to let off some steam and get those "what machine is better" rants off your chest. Perhaps moderators could redirect those kind of rants here?

Obliviously things should never turn personal by making negative and cruel comments about an individual.
lordofchaos is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
Old 17 May 2017, 00:21   #2
trixster
Guru Meditating

 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: England
Posts: 813
Ok. The Falcon was a far more ambitious and better machine than the A1200.
trixster is offline  
Old 17 May 2017, 00:24   #3
dlfrsilver
CaptainM68K-SPS France
dlfrsilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melun nearby Paris/France
Age: 40
Posts: 7,159
Send a message via MSN to dlfrsilver
Quote:
Originally Posted by trixster View Post
Ok. The Falcon was a far more ambitious and better machine than the A1200.
Well more or less. IF you talk about the true color mode, yes. The DSP, yes.

But all that is around, nope, the 1200 is more balanced.
dlfrsilver is offline  
Old 17 May 2017, 00:28   #4
lordofchaos
TinkerTailorContentMaker

lordofchaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bedfordshire
Age: 39
Posts: 1,022
Quote:
Originally Posted by trixster View Post
Ok. The Falcon was a far more ambitious and better machine than the A1200.
On paper or in practice? I mean, what software shows that? Or game?
lordofchaos is offline  
Old 17 May 2017, 00:56   #5
Akira
Registered User

Akira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 18,180
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofchaos View Post
I thought it might be a good idea to have a dedicated thread to those "machine wars" that seem to crop up during off-topic discussions.
You mean a thread for Dennis to ramble in?
Sure, good thought, but I doubt you can contain him! Haha.
Akira is offline  
Old 17 May 2017, 01:04   #6
lordofchaos
TinkerTailorContentMaker

lordofchaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bedfordshire
Age: 39
Posts: 1,022
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akira View Post
You mean a thread for Dennis to ramble in?
Sure, good thought, but I doubt you can contain him! Haha.
Haha! Yes I must confess, I felt inspired after reading your exchanges.

The fanboy is strong with this one!
lordofchaos is offline  
Old 17 May 2017, 09:23   #7
drHirudo
Amiga user
drHirudo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Sofia / Bulgaria
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by trixster View Post
Ok. The Falcon was a far more ambitious and better machine than the A1200.
Yes, and much more expensive. The Amiga 1200 got to many more homes thanks to it's affordable price.
On the other hand the Falcon040 never made it, while the Amiga4000/040 or even A4000/060 was available.
drHirudo is offline  
Old 17 May 2017, 11:07   #8
trixster
Guru Meditating

 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: England
Posts: 813
The Falcon looks way cooler than the A1200 so it wins, hands down.
trixster is offline  
Old 17 May 2017, 11:16   #9
idrougge
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 3,047
Then you touch it and realise it's made like a toy.
idrougge is offline  
Old 17 May 2017, 11:23   #10
Gordon
Settler

Gordon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Serf City
Posts: 1,158
If the Falcon is a Falcon, then the Amiga is an Eagle
Gordon is offline  
Old 17 May 2017, 12:13   #11
trixster
Guru Meditating

 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: England
Posts: 813
Quote:
Originally Posted by idrougge View Post
Then you touch it and realise it's made like a toy.
True.
trixster is offline  
Old 17 May 2017, 12:23   #12
trixster
Guru Meditating

 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: England
Posts: 813
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofchaos View Post
On paper or in practice? I mean, what software shows that? Or game?
At the time of release, admittedly not much. But most recently the Badmood version of Doom, and the DML Quake 2 test, show what the Falcon and its DSP can do, and it's way beyond an A1200 with fast ram. DML thinks that badmood can be made to work on a 4mb falcon.
trixster is offline  
Old 17 May 2017, 12:56   #13
Jack Burton
It's all in the reflexes!
Jack Burton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Wingkong warehouses
Posts: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofchaos View Post
On paper or in practice? I mean, what software shows that? Or game?
I don't know which one is better but these videos can give an idea of what a Falcon030 is capable of :

Game
[ Show youtube player ]

3D engine
[ Show youtube player ]

Software (softsynth tracker )
[ Show youtube player ]

[ Show youtube player ]


To be fair I think it does not look that bad.
Jack Burton is offline  
Old 17 May 2017, 13:38   #14
trixster
Guru Meditating

 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: England
Posts: 813
And half life on falcon. Not stock, as it needs 14mb, but it's on the stock cpu and DSP.

[ Show youtube player ]
trixster is offline  
Old 17 May 2017, 13:48   #15
lordofchaos
TinkerTailorContentMaker

lordofchaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bedfordshire
Age: 39
Posts: 1,022
Quote:
Originally Posted by trixster View Post
At the time of release, admittedly not much. But most recently the Badmood version of Doom, and the DML Quake 2 test, show what the Falcon and its DSP can do, and it's way beyond an A1200 with fast ram. DML thinks that badmood can be made to work on a 4mb falcon.
Quite impressive. Still, an A1200 fully expanded with 60060 would be fairly comparable surely. And then it begs the question, why play those games on the Falcon at all? They run on the oldest PC machines, and better..

For myself it's the software that makes the machine, and that's where the Falcon falls short, under realised and under utilized.
lordofchaos is offline  
Old 17 May 2017, 13:52   #16
Galahad/FLT
Going nowhere

Galahad/FLT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44
Posts: 6,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by trixster View Post
At the time of release, admittedly not much. But most recently the Badmood version of Doom, and the DML Quake 2 test, show what the Falcon and its DSP can do, and it's way beyond an A1200 with fast ram. DML thinks that badmood can be made to work on a 4mb falcon.
Thats all well and good, but those advances would have been more relevant soon after the machines release, not over 20 years later.
Galahad/FLT is offline  
Old 17 May 2017, 14:05   #17
trixster
Guru Meditating

 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: England
Posts: 813
For sure, but we're all current user for these old machines, new hardware and software is still being developed for these machines, so I think it's relevant to show what's available now. It would have been amazing to see the machines pushed to their limits at the time, I quite agree.

And the OP said which machine "is" better, not "was" better!
trixster is offline  
Old 17 May 2017, 14:10   #18
trixster
Guru Meditating

 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: England
Posts: 813
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofchaos View Post
Quite impressive. Still, an A1200 fully expanded with 60060 would be fairly comparable surely. And then it begs the question, why play those games on the Falcon at all? They run on the oldest PC machines, and better
You could ask quite why any of us persist with ancient, underpowered machines. And I think the answer is because we want to and because we can, and because we find it interesting.

You might argue that spending hundreds sticking an 060 into an A1200 or Falcon would and probably should be considered lunacy as you can do it so much easier on a 25 raspberry pi. But we still do it. But surely eeking every last ounce of ability out of a stock machine to see what can be achieve is a much less crazy activity, it's actually achieving something.
trixster is offline  
Old 17 May 2017, 14:25   #19
Amigajay
醉拳
Amigajay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1,497
Amiga 500 Vs Atari ST - the ST was a decent machine, its just the Amiga made it look crapper than it was, soundwise the ST needs putting out of its misery!

Amiga 500+ Vs Atari STE - sure it closed the gap a little, but there was hardly any software support

Amiga 1200 Vs Atari Falcon - on paper the Falcon is better, but the extra cost (the 1mb model was 599 at launch, a full 200 more than the A1200, let alone the 800 4mb model twice the price!) and sod all software support bar a handful of games shows it was no contest regardless of C; going bankrupt 18 months later
Amigajay is offline  
Old 17 May 2017, 14:57   #20
trixster
Guru Meditating

 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: England
Posts: 813
Looking at the OP's topic, I guess it depends on how you wish to define what is "best"?

Is a computer inextricably linked to its software? Can they ever be separated? One machine might be massively more popular than an other, but does that make it "better"? A machine might have measurably better hardware than a contemporary but if the lesser machine is much easier to program for does that make it "better"?

I posted initially Falcon vs A1200 as a bit of a troll to get the thread moving but I think it's an interesting comparison. It would have been nice to see how the Falcon might have faired had Atari not pulled the plug on its computer division only a year after release iot concentrate on an even more ill-fated stab at the console market. It would be nice to see what might have occurred had Atari not decided to go-Acorn and price their machine out of everyone's reach. (I'm thinking Acorn A3000 here).
trixster is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Insanity Fight hajodick project.Maptapper 1 21 February 2017 15:51
Big Fight s2325 Retrogaming General Discussion 0 24 January 2008 23:22
Ripping - Final Fight BippyM project.Sprites 2 06 April 2005 20:53
slap fight!?! conquest request.Old Rare Games 1 13 June 2003 01:21
Final Fight Dastardly support.Games 3 02 June 2003 00:16

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:14.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Page generated in 0.33093 seconds with 13 queries