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Old 03 August 2017, 19:03   #1
Toni Wilen
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Testing: Old IDE drives that are not USB IDE adapter compatible

If you have Windows 7+ PC and have (very) old IDE drive (for example original A600HD drive or similar) that does not work with USB IDE adapters (drive appears are zero size drive Windows Disk Management, if drive does not appear or drive information is corrupted = there is nothing software can do):

- download development winuae (http://www.winuae.net/files/b/winuae.7z)
- run it as administrator
- click add harddrive
- select the drive from dropdown menu (it should be listed, note that previous winuae versions won't list it)
- click new "Read Identity" button. (If list is empty -> check the log)
- copy&paste the output

I am trying to confirm if the problem is as simple as HD being CHS only (Adapter assuming LBA and gets LBA size from undefined LBA field which only contains zeros) and if SCSI (USB uses SCSI which adapter converts to IDE) or IDE passthrough allows to access the drive.

(Or in worst case problem is hardware level that can't be worked around)
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Old 03 August 2017, 20:18   #2
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Make and model of the USB converter/enclosure, type of bridge chip and/or USB ID would also be helpful. Various bridge chips have different vendor-specific ATA passthrough methods.
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Old 07 August 2017, 00:05   #3
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What's the easiest way to tell what kind of bridge chip in in any given ide\usb adapter?
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Old 07 August 2017, 07:18   #4
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Right click my computer. Manage. Device manager
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Old 10 August 2017, 18:01   #5
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Also try Microsoft's USB View program.

For convenience I've uploaded the USB View executables only to
Code:
http://www.media!fire.com/file/tdc20gtaag1rzc8/USB_View.zip
(Remove ! from URL after pasting into your web browser.)
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Old 11 August 2017, 02:00   #6
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I should be able to get some results this weekend.
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Old 12 August 2017, 19:28   #7
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USBView output:

[Port2] : USB Mass Storage Device


Device Power State: PowerDeviceD0

---===>Device Information<===---
English product name: "USB Mass Storage Device"

ConnectionStatus:
Current Config Value: 0x01 -> Device Bus Speed: High
Device Address: 0x11
Open Pipes: 2

===>Device Descriptor<===
bLength: 0x12
bDescriptorType: 0x01
bcdUSB: 0x0200
bDeviceClass: 0x00 -> This is an Interface Class Defined Device
bDeviceSubClass: 0x00
bDeviceProtocol: 0x00
bMaxPacketSize0: 0x40 = (64) Bytes
idVendor: 0x04CF = Myson Century, Inc.
idProduct: 0x8818
bcdDevice: 0xA308
iManufacturer: 0x01
English (United States) "Myson Century, Inc."
iProduct: 0x02
English (United States) "USB Mass Storage Device"
iSerialNumber: 0x00
bNumConfigurations: 0x01

---===>Open Pipes<===---

===>Endpoint Descriptor<===
bLength: 0x07
bDescriptorType: 0x05
bEndpointAddress: 0x03 -> Direction: OUT - EndpointID: 3
bmAttributes: 0x02 -> Bulk Transfer Type
wMaxPacketSize: 0x0200 = 0x200 max bytes
bInterval: 0x00

===>Endpoint Descriptor<===
bLength: 0x07
bDescriptorType: 0x05
bEndpointAddress: 0x84 -> Direction: IN - EndpointID: 4
bmAttributes: 0x02 -> Bulk Transfer Type
wMaxPacketSize: 0x0200 = 0x200 max bytes
bInterval: 0x00

---===>Full Configuration Descriptor<===---

===>Configuration Descriptor<===
bLength: 0x09
bDescriptorType: 0x02
wTotalLength: 0x0020 -> Validated
bNumInterfaces: 0x01
bConfigurationValue: 0x01
iConfiguration: 0x04
English (United States) "USB Mass Storage"
bmAttributes: 0xC0 -> Self Powered
MaxPower: 0x05 = 10 mA

===>Interface Descriptor<===
bLength: 0x09
bDescriptorType: 0x04
bInterfaceNumber: 0x00
bAlternateSetting: 0x00
bNumEndpoints: 0x02
bInterfaceClass: 0x08 -> This is a Mass Storage USB Device Interface Class
bInterfaceSubClass: 0x05
bInterfaceProtocol: 0x50
iInterface: 0x05
English (United States) "Mass Storage Class"

===>Endpoint Descriptor<===
bLength: 0x07
bDescriptorType: 0x05
bEndpointAddress: 0x03 -> Direction: OUT - EndpointID: 3
bmAttributes: 0x02 -> Bulk Transfer Type
wMaxPacketSize: 0x0200 = 0x200 max bytes
bInterval: 0x00

===>Endpoint Descriptor<===
bLength: 0x07
bDescriptorType: 0x05
bEndpointAddress: 0x84 -> Direction: IN - EndpointID: 4
bmAttributes: 0x02 -> Bulk Transfer Type
wMaxPacketSize: 0x0200 = 0x200 max bytes
bInterval: 0x00
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Old 12 August 2017, 19:37   #8
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Drive: Seagate ST9235AG 210Mb

http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/...ta/9235pmb.pdf

Windows 7 disk management cannot read the drive. Offers to 'initialise' it.
I don't want to initialise it because this is the old drive form my A1200.
In disk management drive properties, it reads size as 0
In uae 3.5.0 the drive is not listed
in uae beta, the drive is listed:

BusType: 0x07
Vendor: 'ST9235A'
Product: ''
Revision: '06.0'
Serial: ''
Size: 0

INQUIRY:
000000011F000000535439323335412020202020202020202020202020202020 ........ST9235A
30362E30 06.0

READ CAPACITY:
FFFFFFFF00000200 ........

INQUIRY 1F:
000000011F000000535439323335412020202020202020202020202020202020 ........ST9235A
30362E30 06.0

MODE SENSE:
00000000 ....

MODE SENSE 86:
860B00020000FFFFFFFF000100 .............
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Old 12 August 2017, 19:46   #9
Toni Wilen
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Thanks. This looks promising.

IDENTITY returns valid drive name so drive<>adapter communication is working.

READ CAPACITY returns FFFFFFFF as number of blocks so adapter is getting confused which probably explains zero size in Windows.
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Old 12 August 2017, 19:52   #10
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The second USB/IDE adapter is a Startech USB3SSATAIDE
Same hard drive.
USBView crashes when I try to view the details.
The drive comes up in device manager (and windows explorer) as a removable drive with no disk inserted.

In uae beta the drive is listed as a generic ATA/ATAPI device.
When the 'read identity' button is hit I get no output and uae freezes.
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Old 12 August 2017, 19:53   #11
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Correction: the drive info eventually returned!

BusType: 0x07
Vendor: 'Generic'
Product: 'ATA/ATAPI Device'
Revision: ''
Serial: ''
Size: 0

INQUIRY:
008000000000000047656E65726963204154412F415441504920446576696365 ........Generic ATA/ATAPI Device
2020202000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000172817291730 .......................(.).0
17471623046304C004E500000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 .G.#.c..........................
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 ................................
D7DBA2639891510DEDA94BD432A427CDC07115CE8E5D0A90A2F42E8329FC49C6 ...c..Q...K.2.'..q...]......).I.
0D31FC5F59533DD5DC0D3CE1D58EBF1257924B1E6A67FA56589A58073C3D62A4 .1._YS=...<.....W.K.jg.VX.X.<=b.
A7B3223A4A697D1896A36E439A754FA79EE238D0F1015DABA69B1DEFB6630C1C ..":Ji}...nC.uO...8...]......c..
A41A6B8B2D7F5AB6169DED3BC7DD7100 ..k.-.Z....;..q.

INQUIRY 80:
00800014 ....

INQUIRY 83:
008300180102000847656E657269632001030008200047656E47656E ........Generic .... .GenGen
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Old 12 August 2017, 20:04   #12
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The USB/IDE adapter that 'worked' is much older.
It is branded SOHOUSB EASYIDE, P/No.B407EASYIDE

The Startech adapter that couldn't even see the drive is a USB3 dual sata/ide adapter, a modern device.
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Old 13 August 2017, 18:48   #13
Toni Wilen
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Above output is adapter generated content, I guess it failed to communicate with the drive and returned something build-in to keep OS happy. Does it return different looking data when working drive is connected?

--

winuae.7z updated, now it tries to read first 256 blocks of data (first using READ(6) and then same with READ(10)) when read identity is pressed.

Could you run this with your "working" adapter, then check if SPT_READ_06.DAT and SPT_READ_10.DAT appears in winuae directory with non-zero size. If either (or both) are non-zero, please attach (or email) files. (These files shouldn't contain any actual HD data, only RDB contents but if your drive has something private, check files with hex editor first). Attach also winuaebootlog.txt.
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Old 13 August 2017, 19:06   #14
mark_k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rare_j View Post
The second USB/IDE adapter is a Startech USB3SSATAIDE
Same hard drive.
USBView crashes when I try to view the details.
The drive comes up in device manager (and windows explorer) as a removable drive with no disk inserted.
Interesting... was there any error message when USB View crashed? What is the USB ID of the adapter (you might need to connect it to a more modern drive before checking)?
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Old 13 August 2017, 22:00   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_k View Post
Interesting... was there any error message when USB View crashed? What is the USB ID of the adapter (you might need to connect it to a more modern drive before checking)?
How do I find out the usb id of the adapter in windows?
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Old 13 August 2017, 22:05   #16
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Run USB View, or you can see it in Device Manager (it's more obvious in USB View). In USB View click the entry corresponding to the adapter in the tree view on the left, then on the right it'll say something like (this example being for a Bluetooth dongle):
Code:
idVendor:                        0x0A5C = Broadcom Corp.
idProduct:                       0x21E8
Also include the Manufacter, Product and SerialNumber strings.
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Old 13 August 2017, 22:36   #17
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OK, with usbview I cant view the details in the right hand pane, it (the x64 version) crashes:

Code:
Problem signature:
  Problem Event Name:    APPCRASH
  Application Name:    usbview.exe
  Application Version:    10.0.14393.0
  Application Timestamp:    5789928d
  Fault Module Name:    usbview.exe
  Fault Module Version:    10.0.14393.0
  Fault Module Timestamp:    5789928d
  Exception Code:    c0000005
  Exception Offset:    00000000000039ae
  OS Version:    6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48
  Locale ID:    2057
  Additional Information 1:    1fea
  Additional Information 2:    1fea91377eba21e0fa927639389b0ea1
  Additional Information 3:    24f5
  Additional Information 4:    24f5308868b1664056fe7a8a381b2fa0

Read our privacy statement online:
  http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=104288&clcid=0x0409

If the online privacy statement is not available, please read our privacy statement offline:
  C:\Windows\system32\en-US\erofflps.txt
However device manager sees the ha id:
USB\VID_1F75&PID_0611&REV_0006
USB\VID_1F75&PID_0611

Here's what uae discovers about a normal ide drive using the startech adapter, it looks normal:

BusType: 0x07
Vendor: 'SAMSUNG'
Product: 'SV1604E'
Revision: ''
Serial: ''
Size: 160041885696

INQUIRY:
0004FF3F37C8100053414D53554E472053563136303445202020202020202020 ...?7...SAMSUNG SV1604E
20202020533036424A315441313031333337202020202020534D172817291730 S06BJ1TA101337 SM.(.).0
17471623046304C004E520202020202020202020202020202020202020201080 .G.#.c.... ..
0000002F0040000200020700FF3F10003F0010FCFB001001FFFFFF0F00000700 .../.@.......?..?...............
030078007800F000780000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 ..x.x...x.......................
FE001E006B34017F3340693C013C23403F20260026000000FEFF0B6000800800 ....k4..3@i<.<#@? &.&......`....
9000380410270000B09EA11200000000EA03000000000000F0500000 ..8..'...................P..

READ CAPACITY:
12A19EAF00000200 ........

INQUIRY 80:
00800014 ....

INQUIRY 83:
008300180102000847656E657269632001030008200047656E47656E ........Generic .... .GenGen

MODE SENSE:
00000000 ....

MODE SENSE 0A:
0A0A00000000000000000000 ............

MODE SENSE 18:
18020800 ....

MODE SENSE 1A:
1A26000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 .&..............................
0000000000000000 ........

IDENTITY:
045A3FFFC83700108856022A003F0000FFFF0000533036424A31544131303133 .Z?..7...V.*.?......S06BJ1TA1013
333720202020202000031000000456573130302D303653414D53554E47205356 37 ......VW100-06SAMSUNG SV
3136303445202020202020202020202020202020202020202020202020208010 1604E ..
00002F0040000200020000073FFF0010003F00FBFC1001100FFFFFFF00000007 ../.@.......?....?..............
00030078007800F0007800000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 ...x.x...x......................
00FE001E346B7F0140333C693C014023203F002600260000FFFE600B80000008 ....4k..@3<i<.@# ?.&.&....`.....
00900438000027100000000012A19EB003EA00000000000050F0000000000000 ...8..'.................P.......
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 ................................
0021000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 .!..............................
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 ................................
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 ................................
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 ................................
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 ................................
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 ................................
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 ................................
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000073A5 ..............................s.
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Old 13 August 2017, 22:56   #18
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Not sure why usbview is crashing. Maybe try running it as administrator? Or try downloading the Windows Driver Kit from Microsoft (it's part of that).

Anyway, USB ID 1F75:0611 corresponds to Innostor Technology Corporation, probably IS611 chip from the product ID. According to this thread on the smartmontools mailing list it supports SAT (a standard way to pass ATA commands over SCSI). So it may be possible for WinUAE to support direct access to it in future.
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Old 13 August 2017, 23:12   #19
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OK, this is the old working ide adapter with the old amiga drive.

BusType: 0x07
Vendor: 'ST9235A'
Product: ''
Revision: '06.0'
Serial: ''
Size: 0

INQUIRY:
000000011F000000535439323335412020202020202020202020202020202020 ........ST9235A
30362E30 06.0

READ CAPACITY:
FFFFFFFF00000200 ........

INQUIRY 1F:
000000011F000000535439323335412020202020202020202020202020202020 ........ST9235A
30362E30 06.0

MODE SENSE:
00000000 ....

MODE SENSE 86:
860B00020000FFFFFFFF000100 .............

Here are the files. Hopefully this drive still has an Amiga partition on it.
Attached Files
File Type: zip testing-files.zip (17.5 KB, 21 views)
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Old 13 August 2017, 23:16   #20
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The old "working" adapter is the Myson Century one, right? You might, once WinUAE supports SAT, have better luck with the Startech one. As far as I could see after a quick google search, the Myson chip doesn't support ATA pass-through (or at least, no-one knows how).
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