P96 Licensing Status

[OlafSch]

If it is one person people assume then everybody still buying hardware there should be kicked in the butt<br />
<br />
The comments the a1k threads are very obvious... this transaction will catapult this person out of the market, with or without P96

on a1k they pointed at this french thread:
http://www.amigaimpact.org/forums/topic/vampire-1200/page/4/#post-261112

I have not yet translated it but it seems to be Jens. Now only Aros RTG seems to be the only open and independent option left. We will see.

[daxb]

Please don`t take the thread on a1k.org serious. The most is just bullshit, personal opinion, emotional, guesswork.

[Overflow]

I dont read german, so following all the drama on xyz boards is meh.

Im personally happy with the hardware Ive bought from Jens, and wont be throwing it out in a hissy fit.
That said, having Thomascgx explaining his side, and possibly releasing sources is quite exciting based on the reaction of the Vampire bunch.

Hopefully the situation will be cleared the next few days or coming week.

[OlafSch]

Originally Posted by daxb

Please don`t take the thread on a1k.org serious. The most is just bullshit, personal opinion, emotional, guesswork.

What is wrong?

[OlafSch]

Originally Posted by Overflow

I dont read german, so following all the drama on xyz boards is meh.

Im personally happy with the hardware Ive bought from Jens, and wont be throwing it out in a hissy fit.
That said, having Thomascgx explaining his side, and possibly releasing sources is quite exciting based on the reaction of the Vampire bunch.

Hopefully the situation will be cleared the next few days or coming week.

Even I would donate if f.e. sources would be opened.

We will see if it is Jens or not. If yes he has managed to ruin his business with just one action.

[cmsj]

Originally Posted by Overflow

That said, having Thomascgx explaining his side, and possibly releasing sources is quite exciting based on the reaction of the Vampire bunch.

I wouldn't get too excited just yet, Frank will also have to agree to release anything, and even then, releasing source for old things requires work to check there's no third party copyrights involved.

I'm hopeful we can get redistributable binaries and a public DDK, those alone would be a huge step forward for modern RTG hardware

[OlafSch]

Originally Posted by cmsj

I wouldn't get too excited just yet, Frank will also have to agree to release anything, and even then, releasing source for old things requires work to check there's no third party copyrights involved.

I'm hopeful we can get redistributable binaries and a public DDK, those alone would be a huge step forward for modern RTG hardware

there is at least RTG from Aros that could be backported and is free of copyrights. I know that this requires work but if situation cannot be sorted out it would be a chance to get rid of all the greedy individuals and companies.

[cmsj]

Originally Posted by OlafSch

there is at least RTG from Aros that could be backported and is free of copyrights. I know that this requires work but if situation cannot be sorted out it would be a chance to get rid of all the greedy individuals and companies.

Yes, the other option would be to do a legitimate, clean-room reverse engineering of the P96 driver API.

Both of these options sound like a ton of work, so let's hope that the posturing by Jens/Hyperion around buying P96 is nonsense, or they buy it and behave benevolently towards the community

[OlafSch]

Originally Posted by cmsj

Yes, the other option would be to do a legitimate, clean-room reverse engineering of the P96 driver API.

Both of these options sound like a ton of work, so let's hope that the posturing by Jens/Hyperion around buying P96 is nonsense, or they buy it and behave benevolently towards the community

whoever is behind has managed a own-goal already

[Overflow]

Originally Posted by OlafSch

whoever is behind has managed a own-goal already

We should maybe lower the pitchforks until we have all the facts

[OlafSch]

Originally Posted by Overflow

We should maybe lower the pitchforks until we have all the facts

it will become known who is behind. The amiga community is very small, amiga hardware/software is not necessary for anyone so people do not need to buy. We will see who has created this.

[cmsj]

Originally Posted by Overflow

We should maybe lower the pitchforks until we have all the facts

I think at this point we know enough to be deeply concerned about the future of RTG on OS3.x.

The Vampire guys have talked about the strongly negative experience they had when trying to give money to Tobias/Alex (the P96 guys) and ending up being talked to by Hyperion (who made it very clear that they would put zero effort into supporting P96 on 3.x).

mntmn has talked about the strongly negative contact he's had from Jens about P96.

We've probably all seen Jens trash-talking homebrew hardware on these forums.

I really hate all the negativity around this, but in 2016, the Amiga community itself is the highest priority. It's not a healthy commercial market anymore, and the best work is being done by hobbyists.

The really really stupid thing here is that the sorts of things Jens talks about (WEEE certification, ROHS certification, manufacturing, distribution) are genuinely all things that he is well placed to help with, but it seems like every time he approaches a project, they feel like they are being blackmailed/threatened because he wants them to stop work. He could be providing a friendly and transparent way to bring these projects to the community at larger scale, but I suspect by this point his reputation is tarnished beyond repair.

[OlafSch]

Originally Posted by cmsj

I think at this point we know enough to be deeply concerned about the future of RTG on OS3.x.

The Vampire guys have talked about the strongly negative experience they had when trying to give money to Tobias/Alex (the P96 guys) and ending up being talked to by Hyperion (who made it very clear that they would put zero effort into supporting P96 on 3.x).

mntmn has talked about the strongly negative contact he's had from Jens about P96.

We've probably all seen Jens trash-talking homebrew hardware on these forums.

I really hate all the negativity around this, but in 2016, the Amiga community itself is the highest priority. It's not a healthy commercial market anymore, and the best work is being done by hobbyists.

The really really stupid thing here is that the sorts of things Jens talks about (WEEE certification, ROHS certification, manufacturing, distribution) are genuinely all things that he is well placed to help with, but it seems like every time he approaches a project, they feel like they are being blackmailed/threatened because he wants them to stop work. He could be providing a friendly and transparent way to bring these projects to the community at larger scale, but I suspect by this point his reputation is tarnished beyond repair.

you must simply see it this way, he is doing it for money. The market is limited so any competition (f.e. from hobby projects) is making his potential profit smaller. The Vampire project potentially destroys most of his hardware in future. So from this point of view sabotaging competition makes sense. If it is really Jens it is shortsighted because noone will buy anything from him anymore, even now it is damaging reputation and thus business already.

[cmsj]

Originally Posted by OlafSch

you must simply see it this way, he is doing it for money. The market is limited so any competition (f.e. from hobby projects) is making his potential profit smaller. The Vampire project potentially destroys most of his hardware in future. So from this point of view sabotaging competition makes sense. If it is really Jens it is shortsighted because noone will buy anything from him anymore, even now it is damaging reputation and thus business already.

Sure, and I can totally understand why he would be upset about that, as he said in his email to mntmn, he's been making hardware for Amigas in a time when almost nobody else has. Seeing that investment now being threatened by homebrew hardware must be very difficult.

That's why I think it's a shame that he doesn't approach projects as a friendly partner who can handle all the boring parts of getting a product in the hands of users. He'd still be getting some money from it, and would be everyone's hero.

[roomeo]

Originally Posted by cmsj

That's why I think it's a shame that he doesn't approach projects as a friendly partner who can handle all the boring parts of getting a product in the hands of users. He'd still be getting some money from it, and would be everyone's hero.

spot on!

[emufan]

Originally Posted by ThomasCGX

.... probably someone disasm'ed the original since it was easier
to do than CGX and built upon this ?

here is something intresting from a1k forum (yandex translated):

Should I upload the Code here? Then everyone can take a look for yourself.

The Cache-stuff (part of the rtg.library), for example, is 3rd Party Code. In older versions AFAIK there is also disassembled CGX-Code.

someone also talking about the shareware payment they have choosen for P96 - maybe not a full commercial product, due to the fact the code contains 3rd party stuff they have been using.

[ptyerman]

Originally Posted by cmsj

Sure, and I can totally understand why he would be upset about that, as he said in his email to mntmn, he's been making hardware for Amigas in a time when almost nobody else has.

The problem there is, He has been making hardware for the Amiga "that he wants to make" not everything people want.
How many times have folk asked for a 68040/060 accelerator card? Dozens that I can think of, he wouldn't deliver one, only 020's and 030's, now the community is coming out with one he doesn't like it.
Would he come out with one if the Vampire was axed? Not a chance, he bought the rights to Apollo just to kill it off, it wouldn't surprise me if he tried the same with Blizzard and other makes!

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by OlafSch

you must simply see it this way, he is doing it for money. The market is limited so any competition (f.e. from hobby projects) is making his potential profit smaller. The Vampire project potentially destroys most of his hardware in future. So from this point of view sabotaging competition makes sense. If it is really Jens it is shortsighted because noone will buy anything from him anymore, even now it is damaging reputation and thus business already.

The only reason for me to buy an Amiga Reloaded mobo was so that I could put a Vampire 1200 into it. ;-)
If the rumors turn out to be true (I still hope they won't), it turns out he indeed sabotages that then, yes. Own goal.

Hypothetically speaking, I can see how he could be panicking about his accelerator business, but seriously, for how long can one keep selling slightly tweaked 030 accelerators for €200-250?

History has shown a millions times that ppl who try to stand in the way of advancement will ultimately fail.
Better to adapt to the new world order and see things with fresh eyes.
The record industry in the 90s really thought the best thing to do was to keep selling CDs and threaten and sue everyone that downloaded mp3's instead of having the vision and brains to see what was coming. It seems to me Mr S. Is just another one of those people?
Let us hope he proves me wrong.

Skickat från min HTC One via Tapatalk

[cmsj]

Originally Posted by ptyerman

How many times have folk asked for a 68040/060 accelerator card? Dozens that I can think of, he wouldn't deliver one, only 020's and 030's, now the community is coming out with one he doesn't like it.

Perhaps that's just a lack of available parts, but who knows. If he's just refusing to do it for his own reasons, that's on him when the Vampires eat his lunch.

[grond]

eXeler0: when the v1200 is out by the end of the year, you won't need a reloaded because even most broken a1200 boards will do the job. Or, to be more precise, when custom chip emulation is done inside the fpga, all the board needs do to is to provide power, mouse, joystick and keyboard data.

How does that make a person feel who has declared to be in possession of all remaining stock of amiga custom chips? Desperate.