Manchester United missing in TOSEC

andreas · 24 May 2002, 00:40

HI,

just wanted to report this because nobody seems to have noticed it yet:
Manchester United is missing from TOSEC.

There are lots and lots of versions, but they're either
Manchester United - The Double
or
Manchester United Europe
or
Manchester United Manager
or
Manchester United - Premiere League
(note: please fix the typo)

Watch closely: The "actual" Manchester United is in fact missing in the DAT!
I've got one crack of The Accumulators which seems to be quite common.
In the zone.

Ian · 24 May 2002, 00:48

Would the correct name happen to be:-

Manchester United - The Official Computer Game (1990)(Krisalis)(Disk 1 of 2)[cr Accumulators]
Manchester United - The Official Computer Game (1990)(Krisalis)(Disk 2 of 2)[cr Accumulators]

DPainters already on the case

andreas · 24 May 2002, 03:18

yes it would. I didn't bother with the correct name, I was just pointing out that the "basic" game doesn't exist in the set.

Twistin'Ghost · 24 May 2002, 04:44

It kept telling me to insert the Management Disk and to press any key. I assumed that to be disk 2, but it failed in DF1: and failed in DF0:, so I just bailed. What's up with that?

Incidently, I disagree about that being the title. The Official Computer Game is just a subtitle. It's used on the title screen and the original release box, but not on the budget release box. If you have an original copy of the game (the one with the subtitle on the front) you'll note that the disks are labeled as Manchester United only with no subtitle. And the back of the box of the original Krisalis release also only calls it Manchester United.

DPainter · 24 May 2002, 18:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Twistin'Ghost
Incidently, I disagree about that being the title. The Official Computer Game is just a subtitle. It's used on the title screen and the original release box, but not on the budget release box. If you have an original copy of the game (the one with the subtitle on the front) you'll note that the disks are labeled as Manchester United only with no subtitle. And the back of the box of the original Krisalis release also only calls it Manchester United.

I like to think that the programmers and graphic artists knew what their game was called, and so the title screens would be most accurate. I always try to put in subtitles as per the beta Tosec Naming Convention because I think it helps distinguish titles, but it's always a best guess as to what the literal published title is. I mean, I've got disks printed "Buffalo Bill's Rodeo Games" and the game boots up as Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show. What if on the original box it said, "White Man Play Cowboy and Indian Games"!?!?!?

Twistin'Ghost · 24 May 2002, 19:32

I understand your point, but subtitles appeared on title screens very often that didn't make them part of the title. On the game 1869, the title screen for the AGA version just says 1869, while the ECS version says 1869 History Experience Part I. If taken literally, that would be completely incorrect to title these two games as such in a database. The title screen for Last Duel says Last Duel Inter Planet War 2012, but clearly this is not the title of the game. Other examples: Search for the King's title page calls it Les Manley in Search For The King. Watchtower says Watchtower War Has Never Been As Deadly, Malta Storm says Malta Storm Version 1.33 The Axis Siege of Malta December 1941 to September 1942 (try fitting that one into a TOSEC filename!), and in a more similar example to the Manchester United debate, F1 (1993/Domark) also includes on its title page An official product of the FIA Formula One Championship! There's many more examples, but I think this defends my point.

Another point to remember is that the person who makes the title screen is not usually the programmer, which is why there is often discrepancies betweens titles and spelling from box to title screen to actual game.

DPainter · 24 May 2002, 20:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Twistin'Ghost
I understand your point, but subtitles appeared on title screens very often that didn't make them part of the title. On the game 1869, the title screen for the AGA version just says 1869, while the ECS version says 1869 History Experience Part I. If taken literally, that would be completely incorrect to title these two games as such in a database. The title screen for Last Duel says Last Duel Inter Planet War 2012, but clearly this is not the title of the game. Other examples: Search for the King's title page calls it Les Manley in Search For The King. Watchtower says Watchtower War Has Never Been As Deadly, Malta Storm says Malta Storm Version 1.33 The Axis Siege of Malta December 1941 to September 1942 (try fitting that one into a TOSEC filename!), and in a more similar example to the Manchester United debate, F1 (1993/Domark) also includes on its title page An official product of the FIA Formula One Championship! There's many more examples, but I think this defends my point.

Another point to remember is that the person who makes the title screen is not usually the programmer, which is why there is often discrepancies betweens titles and spelling from box to title screen to actual game.

So if the title screen(s), box covers and disk labels disagree, what is the authoritative source for the official title? I would think either publishing house catalogs, or somewhere inside the manual, like the inside cover, similar to books. If the latter is the case, then he who has the most originals has the most TOSEC corrections to submit.

24 May 2002, 21:28

There are other missing titles as well. There is one I know of, Soccer Kid AGA.

Twistin'Ghost · 25 May 2002, 00:28

The copies I have found of Soccer Kid AGA (the Classic crack) thus far have had errors on disk 1. Anybody else have this problem, too? Or better yet, anybody have a 100% copy of the bootdisk?

Ian · 25 May 2002, 00:30

I have a version of that crack without any errors I believe

I'll upload it for you

As far as I can tell it doesn't have any errors, it loads perfectly without giving any error messages at least

Twistin'Ghost · 25 May 2002, 01:05

Hmm...thanks for the upload, but still no joy.

Twistin'Ghost · 25 May 2002, 01:12

This is weird, because after clicking away the error messages, the intro seems to work anyhow (is there supposed to something more than text on black?), but at the end, it gurus.

I copied the files from the disk into ram and there was no indications of any errors in doing so. I am using WinUAE Classic (8.8r8), if that means anything, using the old BTTR AGA config.

Ian · 25 May 2002, 02:55

Thats is wierd as I get no error what-so-ever, does it happen just after the cracktro?

I loaded the game and started to play it just with no sign of any error.

25 May 2002, 03:14

I already have Ian's version for a while and it works for me too.

Twistin'Ghost · 25 May 2002, 06:00

Well, my version is the same as the one he uploaded, and I have a different one that may just be a different CRC (haven't really investiagted that part yet) and I get a similar error message as in the pic, only on different tracks. That one didn't make it to the intro, but the one Ian uploaded gives the above message for three different tracks, then proceeds with the into (which is just a black background with text and brilliant music).

Twistin'Ghost · 25 May 2002, 06:09

OK, I tried it with a later version of WinUAE and didn't get the disk error messages.

24 May 2002, 00:40	#1
andreas Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Germany Age: 50 Posts: 5,857	Manchester United missing in TOSEC HI, just wanted to report this because nobody seems to have noticed it yet: Manchester United is missing from TOSEC. There are lots and lots of versions, but they're either Manchester United - The Double or Manchester United Europe or Manchester United Manager or Manchester United - Premiere League (note: please fix the typo) Watch closely: The "actual" Manchester United is in fact missing in the DAT! I've got one crack of The Accumulators which seems to be quite common. In the zone.

25 May 2002, 01:05	#11
Twistin'Ghost Give up the ghost Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: U$A Age: 33 Posts: 4,662	Hmm...thanks for the upload, but still no joy. Attached Thumbnails

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24 May 2002, 00:48	#2
Ian Global Moderator Join Date: May 2001 Location: Derby, UK Age: 46 Posts: 2,287	Would the correct name happen to be:- Manchester United - The Official Computer Game (1990)(Krisalis)(Disk 1 of 2)[cr Accumulators] Manchester United - The Official Computer Game (1990)(Krisalis)(Disk 2 of 2)[cr Accumulators] DPainters already on the case

24 May 2002, 03:18	#3
andreas Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Germany Age: 50 Posts: 5,857	yes it would. I didn't bother with the correct name, I was just pointing out that the "basic" game doesn't exist in the set.

24 May 2002, 04:44	#4
Twistin'Ghost Give up the ghost Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: U$A Age: 33 Posts: 4,662	It kept telling me to insert the Management Disk and to press any key. I assumed that to be disk 2, but it failed in DF1: and failed in DF0:, so I just bailed. What's up with that? Incidently, I disagree about that being the title. The Official Computer Game is just a subtitle. It's used on the title screen and the original release box, but not on the budget release box. If you have an original copy of the game (the one with the subtitle on the front) you'll note that the disks are labeled as Manchester United only with no subtitle. And the back of the box of the original Krisalis release also only calls it Manchester United.

24 May 2002, 19:32	#6
Twistin'Ghost Give up the ghost Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: U$A Age: 33 Posts: 4,662	I understand your point, but subtitles appeared on title screens very often that didn't make them part of the title. On the game 1869, the title screen for the AGA version just says 1869, while the ECS version says 1869 History Experience Part I. If taken literally, that would be completely incorrect to title these two games as such in a database. The title screen for Last Duel says Last Duel Inter Planet War 2012, but clearly this is not the title of the game. Other examples: Search for the King's title page calls it Les Manley in Search For The King. Watchtower says Watchtower War Has Never Been As Deadly, Malta Storm says Malta Storm Version 1.33 The Axis Siege of Malta December 1941 to September 1942 (try fitting that one into a TOSEC filename!), and in a more similar example to the Manchester United debate, F1 (1993/Domark) also includes on its title page An official product of the FIA Formula One Championship! There's many more examples, but I think this defends my point. Another point to remember is that the person who makes the title screen is not usually the programmer, which is why there is often discrepancies betweens titles and spelling from box to title screen to actual game.

24 May 2002, 21:28	#8
oldpx Posts: n/a	There are other missing titles as well. There is one I know of, Soccer Kid AGA.

25 May 2002, 00:28	#9
Twistin'Ghost Give up the ghost Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: U$A Age: 33 Posts: 4,662	The copies I have found of Soccer Kid AGA (the Classic crack) thus far have had errors on disk 1. Anybody else have this problem, too? Or better yet, anybody have a 100% copy of the bootdisk?

25 May 2002, 00:30	#10
Ian Global Moderator Join Date: May 2001 Location: Derby, UK Age: 46 Posts: 2,287	I have a version of that crack without any errors I believe I'll upload it for you As far as I can tell it doesn't have any errors, it loads perfectly without giving any error messages at least

25 May 2002, 01:12	#12
Twistin'Ghost Give up the ghost Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: U$A Age: 33 Posts: 4,662	This is weird, because after clicking away the error messages, the intro seems to work anyhow (is there supposed to something more than text on black?), but at the end, it gurus. I copied the files from the disk into ram and there was no indications of any errors in doing so. I am using WinUAE Classic (8.8r8), if that means anything, using the old BTTR AGA config.

25 May 2002, 02:55	#13
Ian Global Moderator Join Date: May 2001 Location: Derby, UK Age: 46 Posts: 2,287	Thats is wierd as I get no error what-so-ever, does it happen just after the cracktro? I loaded the game and started to play it just with no sign of any error.

25 May 2002, 03:14	#14
oldpx Posts: n/a	I already have Ian's version for a while and it works for me too.

25 May 2002, 06:00	#15
Twistin'Ghost Give up the ghost Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: U$A Age: 33 Posts: 4,662	Well, my version is the same as the one he uploaded, and I have a different one that may just be a different CRC (haven't really investiagted that part yet) and I get a similar error message as in the pic, only on different tracks. That one didn't make it to the intro, but the one Ian uploaded gives the above message for three different tracks, then proceeds with the into (which is just a black background with text and brilliant music).

25 May 2002, 06:09	#16
Twistin'Ghost Give up the ghost Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: U$A Age: 33 Posts: 4,662	OK, I tried it with a later version of WinUAE and didn't get the disk error messages.

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