ok I hate to say this but do you not think the atari ST

[Paul_s]

ROARRRRRR Nobody slates the A500

[redblade]

Perhaps if the Atari ST came bundled with a micro version of BSD it would of sold more models?

[Kakaboy]

For some strange reason and I do have the newer cased C64 , I still love the bread box design with its great clunky 1541 . Maybe im looking thru CBM bottle glasses

[desiv]

Originally Posted by asm1

Sure its all a bit of fun, but its funny that the Atari people on their Forums don't act like trolls regarding the Amiga isn't it?

Which forums are those? The ones I go to, there are just as many trolls bashing the Amiga...

I do believe that a lot of the 16-bit computer owners seem to have both, but the trolls exist everywhere I've been... It's a shame, I like all computers.
I did get an ST, and posted on a big Atari site/ST forum asking about video options. My ST didn't have composite (no Modulator) as an option. I didn't know that some did/some didn't. So I asked for options, but also made the mistake of mentioning that I had forgotten My Amiga 500 didn't have color when I rebought one, but at least I could do monochrome..

Oh, the insults and flames started flying...

I put away the ST. I've since seen a good thread on an ST/S-video adapter in the works, but I'm not sure I'll do that..

Funny, I had a similar experience on that same site with the 8-bit world. I was looking into getting an Atari 8-bit. I always wanted an 800, but was wondering about compatibility/options, etc.. So I posted, but I mentioned that I wanted an Atari, but got a Vic-20 at the time for money reasons and went the Commodore path...
All the replies were Commodore bashing, and no valid help. So I shelved the Atari 8-bit search. I'll probably get into that again at some time (maybe the ST too), but I need to find a friendlier forum..

desiv

[frank_b]

Originally Posted by desiv

Which forums are those? The ones I go to, there are just as many trolls bashing the Amiga...

I do believe that a lot of the 16-bit computer owners seem to have both, but the trolls exist everywhere I've been... It's a shame, I like all computers.
I did get an ST, and posted on a big Atari site/ST forum asking about video options. My ST didn't have composite (no Modulator) as an option. I didn't know that some did/some didn't. So I asked for options, but also made the mistake of mentioning that I had forgotten My Amiga 500 didn't have color when I rebought one, but at least I could do monochrome..

Oh, the insults and flames started flying...

I put away the ST. I've since seen a good thread on an ST/S-video adapter in the works, but I'm not sure I'll do that..

Funny, I had a similar experience on that same site with the 8-bit world. I was looking into getting an Atari 8-bit. I always wanted an 800, but was wondering about compatibility/options, etc.. So I posted, but I mentioned that I wanted an Atari, but got a Vic-20 at the time for money reasons and went the Commodore path...
All the replies were Commodore bashing, and no valid help. So I shelved the Atari 8-bit search. I'll probably get into that again at some time (maybe the ST too), but I need to find a friendlier forum..

desiv

Try http://www.atari-forum.com/ It's got the same vibe as here. They're a friendly bunch and I'm sure they'll be as willing to advise on Atari matters as people here do for the miggy.

Frank

[asm1]

Originally Posted by desiv

Which forums are those? The ones I go to, there are just as many trolls bashing the Amiga...

I do believe that a lot of the 16-bit computer owners seem to have both, but the trolls exist everywhere I've been... It's a shame, I like all computers.
<SNIP>
Oh, the insults and flames started flying...

<Snip>

All the replies were Commodore bashing, and no valid help. So I shelved the Atari 8-bit search. I'll probably get into that again at some time (maybe the ST too), but I need to find a friendlier forum..

desiv

*Shrugs* maybe you were just unfortunate... I go to atariage.com and http://www.atari-forum.com/ - all very friendly and nice, and I make it clear that I have an Amiga...... As you say there are idiots everywhere, but blatent fanboyist troll threads like this don't exactly paint us on EAB in the best light do they ?

If I was an Atari fan coming on here and seeing this, I wouldn't feel vey welcome, nor be particularly best disposed towards the Amiga community - in fact it reinforces the negative stereotypes of old.

For example "Atari users are idiots because they don't like the Amiga" And equally "Amiga users are idiots because they don't like Atari"

IMHO both sets of users are complete dickheads if they don't realise how closely linked the Amiga and Atari ST systems are. The founder of Commodore Jack Tramiel, bought Atari for goodness sakes, did he not?. Everyones favourite in the Amiga world the beloved Jay Miner.... well, he worked for Atari in the 1970's... and thats only the tip of the iceberg.
Several other key Amiga people have said that the Atari ST is a "nice little machine" it is certainly much more than a "poor man's Amiga".

I am against any type of fanboyism be it PC/Mac Ati/Nvidia or Windows/OS X/Linux.. arguing over it makes you look silly. Arguing over computer platforms of 15 years ago is beyond silly, its moronic.

Does it matter ? In the end no. People like the ST and people like the Amiga. However setting up threads like these baiting/bashing one or other is childish.

It would have been much easier to set up a thread discussing the aesthetics and or other aspects of the Atari ST Vs the Amiga without immediately bashing one or other. Sadly some people believe that the best way to praise one machine, is to bash its rival.

What continually irritates me is the pervading attitude that to be pro Amiga you must automatically hate the ST... at least that is what seems to be being suggested.

I know many people that have both Atari and Amiga systems. I do myself lol. I also am reasonably intelligent enough to acknowledge the place that each machine has in "history" if you like. The sad fact of the matter is, as Frank said above all these machines and their Companies are now "defunct". I had an Acorn A3010 back in the day. The A3010 case was sleek and to me slightly more attractive than the A500/600/1200/ST case but then that is my opinion - notice I didn't need to start a troll about it.

I am a PC user - I have a beefy PC at home, I prefer PC's etc, but I am writing this on a brand new Imac which I am setting up for my parents. It is GORGEOUS has comparable performance and looks-wise blows my PC box out of the water any day of the week.

To be honest I don't like the Amiga in terms of looks - the Big box miggies look like "old PCs" and the wedges aren't exactly pretty either imho. That said I'm not exactly going to claim that the ST/TT/Falcon are works of modern art either - they were (all) of their time and whether you prefer how one or the other looks is entirely up to you.

Andrew

[desiv]

Originally Posted by asm1

*Shrugs* maybe you were just unfortunate... I go to atariage.com and http://www.atari-forum.com/ - all very friendly and nice, and I make it clear that I have an Amiga......

Judging by the other threads where I was, it isn't just me. True, it's a small minority of people there (and here when they bash (as opposed to valid critiques) the ST), but they are a vocal and insulting minority.

I'll check out atari-forum and see what it's like..

I love atariage, and I've been a member for ages. But I only go there now for the console and arcade machine forums. I post a bit about Coleco Adam and Apple computers (I have a manifold collection of computers :-) sometimes too. I just try to avoid all Commodore related discussions there.

Thanx.

desiv

p.s. As a side note to the side note :-), this thread wasn't actually supposed to be about bashing. It was supposed to be about case designs of the Amiga's. The intro was a supposed joke, but people can't help but bash it seems...

p.p.s. D'oh.. Back on topic? er.. I don't have one, but I always preferred the A1000 case....

[frank_b]

Originally Posted by desiv

Judging by the other threads where I was, it isn't just me. True, it's a small minority of people there (and here when they bash (as opposed to valid critiques) the ST), but they are a vocal and insulting minority.

I'll check out atari-forum and see what it's like..

I love atariage, and I've been a member for ages. But I only go there now for the console and arcade machine forums. I post a bit about Coleco Adam and Apple computers (I have a manifold collection of computers :-) sometimes too. I just try to avoid all Commodore related discussions there.

Thanx.

desiv

p.s. As a side note to the side note :-), this thread wasn't actually supposed to be about bashing. It was supposed to be about case designs of the Amiga's. The intro was a supposed joke, but people can't help but bash it seems...

p.p.s. D'oh.. Back on topic? er.. I don't have one, but I always preferred the A1000 case....

A nice machine from pictures. I always wanted one for my collection.
Speaking of which here's one for the bashers on both sides

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/frank.b...and-a2000a.jpg 68030 power!!

Frank

[Photon]

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Right... because it was grey and had angular F keys... seriously, the question who needs glasses here is quite obviously answered

INDEED

Max font size 7. Bah.

Edit: They considered the design so great, and not fucked in the head unuseful shit at all, that they kept it for the Falcon, too.

and asm1, yeah, thread's mainly for fun and get some opinions and facts out. It's not like we diss 'Atari-owners', it's more like reviews of case designs and insides. The reason Atari owners aren't trolling about how great the ST was is probably the lack of trolling material. There's the MIDI port that never mattered to anyone in the world, of course. But I haven't seen that angle lately.

[asm1]

Originally Posted by Photon

fucked in the head unuseful shit

Must remember this phrase

[Photon]

Well the ST has the advantage of now being retro, like most other unuseful shit. But people on both camps still use this unuseful shit. There must be some reason!! Hehe.

Maybe because we like the unuseful shit over the useful shit of today??

Or - maybe - because we find them useful and do things on them. Because we like them.

As you can tell I don't like ST much. But hey ho, there we go.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Photon

As you can tell I don't like ST much. But hey ho, there we go.

Ah, that explains it Words of wisdom (for a change!) you've written there Sir Photon! Keep it up

[AmigaFriend]

Originally Posted by Photon

There's the MIDI port that never mattered to anyone in the world, of course.

It mattered to me, that's why I bought an A500 with a MIDI interface.

Originally Posted by Photon

As you can tell I don't like ST much. But hey ho, there we go.

The original Atari 520ST is known to be an excellent door stop. Compact and light.

[ImmortalA1000]

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Right... because it was grey and had angular F keys... seriously, the question who needs glasses here is quite obviously answered

Erm...





Quite.

Nothing to do with casing's colour, it is just a better looking design rather than looking like a C128 melted in the microwave. Like I said..the original ST only not the rubbish later ones with the drive built in. The C64C was a nice looking machine, as was the A1000 and A3000 and A600/1200. The 2000/500 had no styling worth speaking of. My eyes are perfect thanks

[TCD]

Seriously, that ST still looks ugly to me. I know that it'll hurt you, but the A1000 and A300 just looked like every other desktop case. Anyway, you showed the pictures, so everybody can judge on their own

[Paul_s]

Originally Posted by asm1

*Shrugs* maybe you were just unfortunate... I go to atariage.com and http://www.atari-forum.com/ - all very friendly and nice, and I make it clear that I have an Amiga...... As you say there are idiots everywhere, but blatent fanboyist troll threads like this don't exactly paint us on EAB in the best light do they ?

If I was an Atari fan coming on here and seeing this, I wouldn't feel vey welcome, nor be particularly best disposed towards the Amiga community - in fact it reinforces the negative stereotypes of old.

For example "Atari users are idiots because they don't like the Amiga" And equally "Amiga users are idiots because they don't like Atari"

IMHO both sets of users are complete dickheads if they don't realise how closely linked the Amiga and Atari ST systems are. The founder of Commodore Jack Tramiel, bought Atari for goodness sakes, did he not?. Everyones favourite in the Amiga world the beloved Jay Miner.... well, he worked for Atari in the 1970's... and thats only the tip of the iceberg.
Several other key Amiga people have said that the Atari ST is a "nice little machine" it is certainly much more than a "poor man's Amiga".

I am against any type of fanboyism be it PC/Mac Ati/Nvidia or Windows/OS X/Linux.. arguing over it makes you look silly. Arguing over computer platforms of 15 years ago is beyond silly, its moronic.

Does it matter ? In the end no. People like the ST and people like the Amiga. However setting up threads like these baiting/bashing one or other is childish.

It would have been much easier to set up a thread discussing the aesthetics and or other aspects of the Atari ST Vs the Amiga without immediately bashing one or other. Sadly some people believe that the best way to praise one machine, is to bash its rival.

What continually irritates me is the pervading attitude that to be pro Amiga you must automatically hate the ST... at least that is what seems to be being suggested.

I know many people that have both Atari and Amiga systems. I do myself lol. I also am reasonably intelligent enough to acknowledge the place that each machine has in "history" if you like. The sad fact of the matter is, as Frank said above all these machines and their Companies are now "defunct". I had an Acorn A3010 back in the day. The A3010 case was sleek and to me slightly more attractive than the A500/600/1200/ST case but then that is my opinion - notice I didn't need to start a troll about it.

I am a PC user - I have a beefy PC at home, I prefer PC's etc, but I am writing this on a brand new Imac which I am setting up for my parents. It is GORGEOUS has comparable performance and looks-wise blows my PC box out of the water any day of the week.

To be honest I don't like the Amiga in terms of looks - the Big box miggies look like "old PCs" and the wedges aren't exactly pretty either imho. That said I'm not exactly going to claim that the ST/TT/Falcon are works of modern art either - they were (all) of their time and whether you prefer how one or the other looks is entirely up to you.

Andrew

The Amiga vs. Atari war is mainly tongue in cheek banter. Like reliving the old days at school etc. I'm sure the majority of us would be smiling as we type stuff against one another etc. It only gets moronic/oversteps the line with personal insults...

It's probably the same scenario with the XBox360/PS3/Wii these days, but even worse as kids carry knives/guns/potato peelers/knuckle dusters etc Whereas us old folk just used to have an apple/marble

I don't mind the Atari - it's the Apple products (mainly the I-products) that i REALLY hate with a passion (It's their marketing that winds me up like it's a 'living' product and will synergize your life and make it more productive)

[Photon]

Well hell, I'll gladly grant the ST its aesthetics - I'd agree that at first glance the ST had 'radder' looks than the A500. It's more about the computer system (hardware) design; no floppy, no thought of expansion (the A500 had two buses etc), basically the A500 had a much more sound and thought-through system design, so it was more useful out of the box.

When I switched to an A500, it was a distinct step-up in manufacturing quality. I was glad to not have a separate floppy as big as a C-64 one, and I was relieved at being able to type on a keyboard that was designed by someone who designs keyboards, and I was especially relieved at getting rid of the rad looking F-keys

It was a key point for me, it was a definite step down from the keyboards of most of my earlier and lower cost home computers in design, feel and quality (clunk clunk plick plick two keys at once twice every minute). Very strange, especially since Atari has made some nice keyboards in the past.

Also, I liked the looks of the A500 when you watched the monitor - it had the most professional look and feel of all OSes I'd tried, all categories. Quite like the Mac, not as wonderfully cute, but much more feature-rich and usable.

[antonvaltaz]

Originally Posted by Paul_s

I don't mind the Atari - it's the Apple products (mainly the I-products) that i REALLY hate with a passion (It's their marketing that winds me up like it's a 'living' product and will synergize your life and make it more productive)

Absolutely! And smug patronising Apple users who've been mugged into buying an over-priced and under-specced piece of junk because they believe having a Mac makes them more 'creative' and more of an 'individual' and who look condescendingly upon mere Windows users. Grrrr...

(have I gone slightly off-topic?)

[ImmortalA1000]

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Seriously, that ST still looks ugly to me. I know that it'll hurt you, but the A1000 and A300 just looked like every other desktop case. Anyway, you showed the pictures, so everybody can judge on their own

That's fair enough, and I will be the first person to admit the ST was nothing of a serious home computer and should have stuck to spreadsheets/sequencers/cross assembler type tools etc. Even for 3D solid polygon games the sound was always a trade-off not worth the 10% faster graphics of 3D games either so I still used my Amiga for those when I owned an ST and A1000 together.

To me the A1000 personally was elegant, and quiet and had nice touches like the keyboard going under the desk. The A3000 I also thought was quite striking and very Commodore with the horizontal slats they're famous for. It's more about effort that goes into the case designs, for Commodore it was a new thing since the PET died off and they did a nice job compared to the huge massive noisy IBM XT/AT machines of the mid 80s even though some people say the A1000 looks 'boring'.

[asm1]

Originally Posted by Paul_s

I don't mind the Atari - it's the Apple products (mainly the I-products) that i REALLY hate with a passion (It's their marketing that winds me up like it's a 'living' product and will synergize your life and make it more productive)

Originally Posted by antonvaltaz

Absolutely! And smug patronising Apple users who've been mugged into buying an over-priced and under-specced piece of junk because they believe having a Mac makes them more 'creative' and more of an 'individual' and who look condescendingly upon mere Windows users. Grrrr...

(have I gone slightly off-topic?)

I agree with both of you... I don't particularly like Apple or their marketing. Although I am secretly impressed that my parents new iMac is Dual booting Win 7 with OSX and it looks nice That said I still wouldn't buy one myself - too pricey. I'm quite happy with winblows thanx

I sit on the fence regarding MS windows as well, I accept that an M$ OS is a necessary evil in my PC life as linux is not for me (talk about condescending people who think they're better than everyone else...the Mac OS lot got nothing on Linux geeks I have met lol), and OSX whilst lovely is hampered by the fact that you MUST buy into "Appledom" in order to be able to use it. Yes I know, there are ways.... but in truth I cant be bothered faffing around getting all the bits to work only for it to break every time there is a software update, so I'm not going to even try.

The best thing about this Mac is however the fact that because it dual boots, I can run WinUae (and the screen is gorgeous!)