Why Obliterator was so slow?

saimon69 · 19 March 2023, 07:58

Was it because was programmed in C with one of those old unoptimized compilers? Was because was programmed badly? All of the above?

malko · 19 March 2023, 10:30

I always wondered if it was due to the games' control (mouse click on icon menu).
To leave the "gamer" time to click on the correct action.
Even if I finished it BitD, I never really enjoyed the controls.
Barbarian (also from Psygnosis) had the same control and "slowness".
Obliterator :
[ Show youtube player ]
Barbarian:
[ Show youtube player ]

As a side note "Gold of the Aztecs" has the same kind of "movement slowness" but I never understood it has it was joystick controlled.
[ Show youtube player ]

Tigerskunk · 19 March 2023, 10:35

My guess is that they didn't really know how to code efficiently back then.

I mean, this was probably a direct port from the ST, and those were very early games. Like 1987/88 ish.

kamelito · 19 March 2023, 12:30

IIRC they were using some kind of games tools to develop those games and I suppose that Atari ST was the basis of it. I don’t recall the name of the tech they were using. I read about it years ago in a French mag.

kamelito · 19 March 2023, 12:53

https://obligement-free-fr.translate...en&_x_tr_hl=fr

Superman · 19 March 2023, 13:49

Obliterator seems to use the same sound effects as Thundercats. Similar framerate too.

modrobert · 19 March 2023, 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by saimon69

Was it because was programmed in C with one of those old unoptimized compilers? Was because was programmed badly? All of the above?

At the time of release I was told Obliterator was programmed system friendly, using Amiga libs etc.

ImmortalA1000 · 19 March 2023, 23:15

It was a straight port with DAC routine amendments to some very poor Atari ST game engine?

(poor for the ST I mean)*

saimon69 · 20 March 2023, 00:48

Obli definitely need a recode with joystick only controls, assets (audiovisuals) are nice but the rest... -_-

ImmortalA1000 · 20 March 2023, 11:04

It's a flip screen game and the graphics aren't exactly Shadow of the Beast quality, and nor is the music come to think of it. Not sure why it isn't coded like Baal really.

Minuous · 20 March 2023, 11:24

It already supports joystick, I don't see how removing mouse support would improve it.

gimbal · 20 March 2023, 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigerskunk

My guess is that they didn't really know how to code efficiently back then.

I mean, this was probably a direct port from the ST, and those were very early games. Like 1987/88 ish.

Then a publisher saying "do this for the least amount of budget possible" is also on the table.

TCD · 20 March 2023, 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimbal

Then a publisher saying "do this for the least amount of budget possible" is also on the table.

Given that it's the same coder as Barbarian I don't think that was a major problem.

saimon69 · 20 March 2023, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minuous

It already supports joystick, I don't see how removing mouse support would improve it.

A RECODE FROM SCRATCH would definitely do though

huggy70 · 20 March 2023, 20:26

Quote:

As a side note "Gold of the Aztecs" has the same kind of "movement slowness" but I never understood it has it was joystick controlled.

Nice one, reminds me of Caverns of Khafka for C64. Had also this slowlyness

but with better music

desiv · 20 March 2023, 20:36

OK, it wasn't my favorite game back in the day, but knowing it couldn't have been THAT bad, I just tried it again...
...
Man, that is slow... I mean... Wow...
I remembered not liking the controls, but I didn't remember it being that painfully slow...

Too bad because I did/do really like the art style and music...
Could have been a nice Alien Syndrome + for the Amiga, but.. er..
Yeah, this is pretty bad...
And this is coming from someone who doesn't hate the gameplay of SoTB... ;-)

saimon69 · 21 March 2023, 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by desiv

(epiphany)

Yes, exactly what i mean

mark_k · 21 March 2023, 21:49

I wonder if the developers were using NTSC machines for development (I guess NTSC Atari STs may have been available before the first PAL models?). Gameplay speed should be 20% faster in NTSC, so a bit less awful than on PAL machines.

demoniac · 22 March 2023, 06:55

I played both Barbarian and Obliterator on NTSC Amiga and they were still painfully slow.

Tigerskunk · 22 March 2023, 10:50

The music is still one of the best Amiga game music tracks around imo.

David Whitaker did some crazy nice stuff for the early Amiga, like Xenon, Menace and Obliterator.

I heard he used a lot of C64 SID samples in his Amiga tracks, that's why they probably sound so good compared to the usual el cheapo ST-01 sample library shit back then.

19 March 2023, 07:58	#1
saimon69 J.M.D - Bedroom Musician Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: los angeles,ca Posts: 3,528	Why Obliterator was so slow? Was it because was programmed in C with one of those old unoptimized compilers? Was because was programmed badly? All of the above?

19 March 2023, 12:30	#4
kamelito Zone Friend Join Date: May 2006 Location: France Posts: 1,801	IIRC they were using some kind of games tools to develop those games and I suppose that Atari ST was the basis of it. I don’t recall the name of the tech they were using. I read about it years ago in a French mag. Last edited by kamelito; 19 March 2023 at 12:48.

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19 March 2023, 10:30	#2
malko Ex nihilo nihil Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: CH Posts: 4,880	I always wondered if it was due to the games' control (mouse click on icon menu). To leave the "gamer" time to click on the correct action. Even if I finished it BitD, I never really enjoyed the controls. Barbarian (also from Psygnosis) had the same control and "slowness". Obliterator : [ Show youtube player ] Barbarian: [ Show youtube player ] As a side note "Gold of the Aztecs" has the same kind of "movement slowness" but I never understood it has it was joystick controlled. [ Show youtube player ]

19 March 2023, 10:35	#3
Tigerskunk Inviyya Dude! Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Amiga Island Posts: 2,773	My guess is that they didn't really know how to code efficiently back then. I mean, this was probably a direct port from the ST, and those were very early games. Like 1987/88 ish.

19 March 2023, 12:53	#5
kamelito Zone Friend Join Date: May 2006 Location: France Posts: 1,801	https://obligement-free-fr.translate...en&_x_tr_hl=fr

19 March 2023, 13:49	#6
Superman Super Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Wakefield Age: 48 Posts: 1,334	Obliterator seems to use the same sound effects as Thundercats. Similar framerate too.

19 March 2023, 23:15	#8
ImmortalA1000 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: london/england Posts: 1,347	It was a straight port with DAC routine amendments to some very poor Atari ST game engine? (poor for the ST I mean)*

20 March 2023, 00:48	#9
saimon69 J.M.D - Bedroom Musician Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: los angeles,ca Posts: 3,528	Obli definitely need a recode with joystick only controls, assets (audiovisuals) are nice but the rest... -_-

20 March 2023, 11:04	#10
ImmortalA1000 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: london/england Posts: 1,347	It's a flip screen game and the graphics aren't exactly Shadow of the Beast quality, and nor is the music come to think of it. Not sure why it isn't coded like Baal really.

20 March 2023, 11:24	#11
Minuous Coder/webmaster/gamer Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Canberra/Australia Posts: 2,636	It already supports joystick, I don't see how removing mouse support would improve it.

20 March 2023, 20:36	#16
desiv Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Salem, OR Posts: 1,770	OK, it wasn't my favorite game back in the day, but knowing it couldn't have been THAT bad, I just tried it again... ... Man, that is slow... I mean... Wow... I remembered not liking the controls, but I didn't remember it being that painfully slow... Too bad because I did/do really like the art style and music... Could have been a nice Alien Syndrome + for the Amiga, but.. er.. Yeah, this is pretty bad... And this is coming from someone who doesn't hate the gameplay of SoTB... ;-)

21 March 2023, 21:49	#18
mark_k Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Posts: 3,342	I wonder if the developers were using NTSC machines for development (I guess NTSC Atari STs may have been available before the first PAL models?). Gameplay speed should be 20% faster in NTSC, so a bit less awful than on PAL machines.

22 March 2023, 06:55	#19
demoniac Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: - Posts: 1,693	I played both Barbarian and Obliterator on NTSC Amiga and they were still painfully slow.

22 March 2023, 10:50	#20
Tigerskunk Inviyya Dude! Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Amiga Island Posts: 2,773	The music is still one of the best Amiga game music tracks around imo. David Whitaker did some crazy nice stuff for the early Amiga, like Xenon, Menace and Obliterator. I heard he used a lot of C64 SID samples in his Amiga tracks, that's why they probably sound so good compared to the usual el cheapo ST-01 sample library shit back then.

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