NeoGeo Metal Slug conversion to Amiga 500 - madman task ;-)

[Samurai_Crow]

Originally Posted by x-vision

AFAIK Nope. That "advantage" does not exist, as currently all graphic memory data is calculated in Fast ram, and chip ram is only used to render, as it is the fatest and smartest thing to do.



Maybe we need 4MB of Fast ram. Or 6. thats' ok. But come on: are we really saying, after all these years of experiences, that an ST can outperform an A500?? or even that an ST can run some game that an Amiga don't?

An STe is beefier than an ST and the game is ported to the STe. AGA can handle it with fast RAM but not without. ECS sprites may be too narrow for this job and without fast RAM it may well be hopeless.

[roondar]

Originally Posted by x-vision

AFAIK Nope. That "advantage" does not exist, as currently all graphic memory data is calculated in Fast ram, and chip ram is only used to render, as it is the fatest and smartest thing to do.

This is not how coding for the A500 normally works, because keeping GFX memory in Fast RAM and rendering to Chip RAM is slow on that system. The 68000 can only move about 1/2 of the data per frame the Blitter can in the best of cases, which is nowhere near enough for this game. And yes, this gets way, way worse if you do something like rendering directly with the 68000 from Fast RAM to the screen.

True, on AGA systems it's easier and a common workflow on 68030+ systems with AGA is indeed to have all GFX in Fast RAM and rendering down to Chip RAM. But that is not quite a fair comparison to a basic STe, now is it.

Maybe we need 4MB of Fast ram. Or 6. thats' ok. But come on: are we really saying, after all these years of experiences, that an ST can outperform an A500?? or even that an ST can run some game that an Amiga don't?

Even the basic ST has several advantages over the Amiga (notably the ability to access more ST-RAM than the Amiga 500 can Chip RAM and it's slightly faster CPU, which always made it stronger in polygonal 3D games).

The STe shares those advantages and also has a Blitter & hardware scrolling to make it's GFX performance much closer to the Amiga (though the Amiga still has advantages left, like HW Sprites, the Copper and the ability to run in more than 16 colours per scanline). Acknowledging these advantages and equalisers exist is not dissing the Amiga, it's just being honest about the situation. Not too mention that the STe is a 1989 computer. It's not so odd that it managed to partially catch up to the Amiga's 1985 design by then.

[sandruzzo]

One of the most annoying lack of Amiga is not having HW flipx-y for sprites, and x for blitters. By doing that you can spare a lot of RAM!

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by x-vision

AFAIK Nope. That "advantage" does not exist, as currently all graphic memory data is calculated in Fast ram, and chip ram is only used to render, as it is the fatest and smartest thing to do.

Not on a raw A500, and that's what we are talking about here...

[sandruzzo]

Like I said, we should do a game that resemble Metal Slug, but whitin Amiga capabilities: It can be done, look at Turrican 1-2.

[Rob68K]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

One of the most annoying lack of Amiga is not having HW flipx-y for sprites, and x for blitters. By doing that you can spare a lot of RAM!

Utterly. To be fair though, when this stuff was designed, there wasn't much of a precedent in video games for decent animation. I mean, they clearly thought that 'Robo City' was a really cool thing, even though anyone with an ounce of discernment at the time thought it was crap.

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

One of the most annoying lack of Amiga is not having HW flipx-y for sprites, and x for blitters. By doing that you can spare a lot of RAM!

Believe me, I know what you mean.
Along with the x times planes mask with interleaved BOBs this is my biggest Chip RAM burner.

[sandruzzo]

Originally Posted by Tigerskunk

Believe me, I know what you mean.
Along with the x times planes mask with interleaved BOBs this is my biggest Chip RAM burner.

they should have added some sort of display list that allows the blitter to do 6 blitz without chip aid.. Like I said many times, Amiga OCS needed some fixes