16 January 2015, 23:20 | #461 | |
Moon 1969 = amiga 1985
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it's really great to have your details about all of this. Do you have some memory to share about "line of fire" development, i remember that i was amazed by this port for the atari st (i had 1st an atari st, shame on me ), of course the amiga version was better but you succeed to keep the atari st version really near the amiga. did you have some tools to convert amiga stuff to the atari st ? ps: it was surely a nightmare to convert arcade gfx to 16 colours !! like you said, it was impossible to keep paralax with just 16 colours. Last edited by turrican3; 16 January 2015 at 23:50. |
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16 January 2015, 23:40 | #462 | |
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Incidentally when the game has 1Mb, it creates a 128kb block of every 16-bit combination of words reversed so that it can flip the character graphics more quickly when a character changes direction. |
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17 January 2015, 00:34 | #463 | |
Jackie Chan
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17 January 2015, 01:47 | #464 | |
J.M.D - Bedroom Musician
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17 January 2015, 02:43 | #465 | ||
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I have been working in the video games industry since 1998 and I know what kind of pressures lie on developers's shoulders but part of being a professional is about facing your boss and telling them the diplomatic equivalent of "sorry, I'm the expert here, I will do this but these technical conditions must be met first". In Richard's case that would have been something like "give me latitude to contact Capcom and obtain first hand data from them, you don't even need to get involved, I'll handle everything". When you have technical and professional expertise and enough self respect you ought to grab yourself by the guts and tell management what is acceptable and what is not because that's why a coder salary is higher than that of other job roles in the industry: because no one else can do it. That sounds horribly pretentious and I cringe while re-reading it but it's a fact. Coders are rare creatures, very rare. And they were even rarer at that time so there's no way Richard would have been fired if he had been insistent about doing the thing right: how else would they have gotten that game through the door? It's not like they had an army of coders both willing to work for free and actually capable knocking at their doors. Essentially I'm blaming you Richard for having been young and not insistent enough. Just like I was when I entered the industry. God knows I'd kick myself in the jewels to be more assertive if I could redo it all. Last edited by Nekoniaow; 17 January 2015 at 02:52. Reason: Damn, that first attempt was too harsh, I hope it's better now. Sorry if it's not. :s |
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17 January 2015, 04:10 | #466 | |
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Ha I'd totally forgotten about that. Indeed! :-) Last edited by TCD; 17 January 2015 at 20:23. Reason: Back-to-back posts merged. |
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17 January 2015, 07:53 | #467 |
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I must precise that the blaming part was written tongue in cheek. But after re-reading my post it's clear that it doesn't convey my state of mind properly and sounds way too self important.
But I'm glad I helped you finally see the light. This said I would have preferred you to give more details about your efforts to convince your bosses that the result would be sub par. You probably had way more clout at the time of FF inside your company than I ever had in my first company so historically it would be interesting to hear what kind of arguments were opposed to you and how you countered (if you did). I would love to know what was the real reason behind the clear under budgeting of relatively high profile titles: incompetence? low profitability? desire to simply profit from a license without a care for the end result? etc. But yes, the tone of my post was way too preachy. I deserve your sarcasm. |
17 January 2015, 19:42 | #468 | |
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17 January 2015, 20:24 | #469 | |
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Once it becomes clear that it's viable it's difficult to stop - but by far the most time consuming aspect is the coding of the various moves and interactions in the beginning. It's for this reason I waited until I had a basic demo up and running of the first basic engine before (somewhat apprehensively if excitedly) presenting here - people are always unsure about how far something like this will go. He may spring it on us suddenly when he gets something going - but I guess he'll keep us updated on his blog since he's gone about it this way. |
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18 January 2015, 08:34 | #470 |
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Ok I don't want to sound defensive (I don't feel it) but I was just brushing my teeth and a thought occurred to me; I do see a fair number of negative comments about the games I worked on (just kinda generally, e.g. youtube) and it just occurred to me that:
I was in my teens and early twenties, I was entirely self-taught, I wrote many games on many platforms all entirely on my own (i.e. nobody else coding), in assembler, on primitive tools (I built my own cross assembler ffs), in typically just a few months (6 months for FF was the longest) and was converting games from an arcade machine which was typically substantially more powerful (...in the ways that mattered to the game in question) under substantial time constraints (and typically doing the ST port as well)... ..and so, while brushing my teeth thought occurred to me... "what the fuck is with all these armchair game developers having a go at me?" I know it sounds defensive but to me it's more funny. Other game developers I know from back in the day (various names you've heard of or not) didn't give me a hard time, some were even quite complimentary... Anyway, my observation is that (across the web) there's an awful lot of bullshit flying from people who don't know one end of a blitter from another. That's all. Night night! |
18 January 2015, 12:43 | #471 |
CaptainM68K-SPS France
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Richard, Final fight programming on amiga was good with many clever ideas. You did with what you got. The game i love the most from you is Double Dragon 2. Not only the amiga version is excellent, but the amstrad CPC version is top class and even above all the other 8 bits release (since it's an amiga port).
Shinobi and FF got bad graphics, because those who ported them were not professionals (if i remember well). BTW, would you be interested with final fight Amiga code ressourced ? |
18 January 2015, 19:37 | #472 | |
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Ok anyway, back to the subject at hand; Final Fight AGA.... |
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18 January 2015, 23:29 | #473 |
Jackie Chan
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Anyway, my observation is that (across the web) there's an awful lot of bullshit flying from people who don't know one end of a blitter from another. That's all. Night night!
That's the internet in a nutshell. |
19 January 2015, 01:16 | #474 |
Going nowhere
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Well this armchair critic was largely happy with what you did.
The 'alternative' was Tiertex........and they REALLY didnt give a fuck at all. The main problem for the Amiga was always the Atari ST, because it was relatively easy to transfer the results from ST to Amiga, it wasnt until later in the Amigas life that the Amiga was treated differently when sales of Amiga titles were outselling ST versions, but by then, the damage was done, lots of people assumed the Amiga wasnt quite as good as they thought, so they fucked off to the consoles. With developers like early Teque and Tiertex (teque improved later), they were happy to undercut everyone and do all 8 and 16 bit versions, which must have been brilliant for Ocean and US Gold, not so much for the end user who wondered why Chase HQ on their Amiga was actually slower than the Spectrum version :/ I liked your shit Richard, you made an effort, and what people dont seem to be able to accept is this: Imagine Tiertex got the gig for Final Fight.........lets see you shed some proper fucking tears eh? |
19 January 2015, 03:49 | #475 |
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Maybe some artists around here could mockup what the Tiertex version of Final Fight would look like? I'd guess:
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19 January 2015, 04:05 | #476 | |
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19 January 2015, 06:51 | #477 | |
Moon 1969 = amiga 1985
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19 January 2015, 08:04 | #478 | |
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19 January 2015, 09:22 | #479 |
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Here's a quick mockup. Please note the following features:
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19 January 2015, 12:49 | #480 |
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You are too optimistic, this is more like Tiertex IMO
8 colors in the main game area, with tons of dithering to have more colors, Tiertex will go this innovative approach for better speed. To improve speed even further they would use 2 panels instead of one. Down panel is a nice artwork to remind you the coin op, up you ll have a nice 4 color game logo and 2 beatiful 4 color logos from CAPCOM and Tiertex themselves. Finally you'll have a great working Final Fight on your Amiga 500 when everyone else thought it was impossible. Last edited by nobody; 19 January 2015 at 13:03. |
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