The 68000 wars

[Amiga1992]

I recently found out about this guy thanks to Syphus who shared an article of his (thanks dude!). Jimmy Maher wrote a book about Amiga called "The Future Was Here" and after reading his blog I am quite interested in acquiring and reading this book. You can buy it in Amazon from this link.

My attention was mainly taken by the series titled "The 68000 Wars". Basically a very good account of how the Amiga came to life (and to die!), as well as the Atari ST and all that shebang.

The 68000 Wars, Part 1: Lorraine
The 68000 Wars, Part 2: Jack Is Back!
The 68000 Wars, Part 3: We Made Amiga, They Fucked It Up

I didn't see them posted here after searching so I thought I'd share, hopefully it's not a duplicate post!

Look at the whole website, he has lots of other interesting articles!


[edit] this brought up to my attention that fucking Cloanto have filed a copyright claim against the Youtube video showing the whole Amiga 1985 World Premiere. What the fuck?? Now we can't see that moment ;( Fuck you again, Cloanto.

[zardoz]

Thanks for the link, proper interesting all that

[rhester72]

Absolutely brilliant read (having already read and enjoyed The Future Was Here). Thank you!

Rodneyt

[ReadOnlyCat]

Originally Posted by Akira

I recently found out about this guy thanks to Syphus who shared an article of his (thanks dude!). Jimmy Maher wrote a book about Amiga called "The Future Was Here" and after reading his blog I am quite interested in acquiring and reading this book. You can buy it in Amazon from this link.

My attention was mainly taken by the series titled "The 68000 Wars". Basically a very good account of how the Amiga came to life (and to die!), as well as the Atari ST and all that shebang.

The 68000 Wars, Part 1: Lorraine
The 68000 Wars, Part 2: Jack Is Back!
The 68000 Wars, Part 3: We Made Amiga, They Fucked It Up

I didn't see them posted here after searching so I thought I'd share, hopefully it's not a duplicate post!

Look at the whole website, he has lots of other interesting articles!

I had hesitated to acquire Jimmy Maher's book but after reading these three articles it is clear that he has a really nice writing style and that he has extensive and very knowledgeable sources. They were a real pleasure to read and I will be acquiring his book as soon as possible.

Originally Posted by Akira

[edit] this brought up to my attention that fucking Cloanto have filed a copyright claim against the Youtube video showing the whole Amiga 1985 World Premiere. What the fuck?? Now we can't see that moment ;( Fuck you again, Cloanto.

Well, they likely own the rights to it after they acquired some assets from Amiga Inc. and they probably have plans to do something more official with it.
A lesson I learned in life: never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence (here, bad communication).

[Amiga1992]

How can they own the rights to a presentation? It's just stupid. And if they want to make MONEY out of this, well, they can just fuck off. The claim is probably based off the brand use, but still, a cheeky attitude. I think i's an important moment in computing history that should be shown publicly.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, it's a really great account of this time period and I am looking forward to read both more articles from him as well as his book. It's a shit ton of material to go through, though!

[john1979]

Great read. Great find Akira!

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by john1979

Great read. Great find Akira!

Well as I said Syphus found it and shared it with me

[ReadOnlyCat]

Let us tackle these one after the other.

Originally Posted by Akira

How can they own the rights to a presentation? It's just stupid.

Because Commodore owned this video before them, then Amiga Inc. then Cloanto bought the rights to a lot of things Amiga from Amiga Inc probably including this video. Youtube would not shut it down without at least a proof of ownership so it is very likely Cloanto owns it.

That would give them legal control over it and the right to use/hide it however they want. It is not ours to decide even though obviously I would rather be able to see it on Youtube for free.

If I want to be able to control the showing of videos that I do own, then I must accept Cloanto's right to do so.

Originally Posted by Akira

And if they want to make MONEY out of this, well, they can just fuck off.

Well, you are only speculating there and quite negatively I must say.

Why not try to envision the other positive alternatives?
Digitally refresh the video before reposting it?
Supplementing it with some more yet unpublished content?
Re-release it using an official Amiga history channel?
And so on...

I am sure than 10 minutes of brainstorming should be enough to arrive at quite a large list of non-commercial positive reasons why they want the video to disappear for now.

Also, from a purely legal point of view they are absolutely entitled to making money out of it. This said, this seems quite unlikely since there aren't many people who would be eager to buy it right?

All this negativity when we have no information whatsoever is just going to shorten your lifespan.

Originally Posted by Akira

The claim is probably based off the brand use, but still, a cheeky attitude.

Unlikely, owning the brand does not allow them to censor videos about it. They can only have youtube remove it if they own the video.

And again why the "cheeky"? We do not even know why they are doing that yet.
Don't just think of the negative options!

Originally Posted by Akira

I think i's an important moment in computing history that should be shown publicly.

And it still can be shown. That's precisely what the fair use provisions are for. But the display of the entire video depends on Cloanto's will.

Again, let's wait until we know what plans they have in mind for it before we get angry about it.

It's not like Cloanto is known for its evil and damaging attitude toward the Amiga community isn't it.

[Amiga1992]

Do you work at Cloanto or know something we don't? Otherwise, I don't understand. All that Cloanto has done has been detrimental to the Amiga scene.

Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat

It's not like Cloanto is known for its evil and damaging attitude toward the Amiga community isn't it.

It's exactly what they are, I am assuming that last one was tongue in cheek.

[desiv]

Originally Posted by Akira

Do you work at Cloanto or know something we don't? Otherwise, I don't understand. All that Cloanto has done has been detrimental to the Amiga scene.

I don't work there or know anyone there either, and I don't see it that way.
I don't use, but appreciate the work they do, and I can see where it helps people in the Amiga community.

Yes, people can just download/use WinUAE, but there are people who like the packaged AmigaForever stuff. And that's great.

And I balance the "could they do more to help the Amiga community" with the "they are running a business" and don't see them being that bad on that scale.

As for the OP, thanx for the links!!

desiv
(Actually, I did use their AmigaExplorer for a bit, and liked it. But being the nerd I am, I fell back to an FTP server. But I still appreciate their work.)

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by desiv

I don't work there or know anyone there either, and I don't see it that way.

But I wrote to another user, do you have two accounts?

[ReadOnlyCat]

Originally Posted by Akira

Do you work at Cloanto or know something we don't? Otherwise, I don't understand. All that Cloanto has done has been detrimental to the Amiga scene.

It's exactly what they are, I am assuming that last one was tongue in cheek.

It was not. You are the first one on EAB that I saw mentioning Cloanto in a negative light. Maybe I did not follow the proper threads but it seems to me overall that they are relatively popular.

What did they do which makes you think they cause harm to the Amiga ecosystem?

Originally Posted by Akira

But I wrote to another user, do you have two accounts?

I think he simply wanted to reply for me.

This said I agree with him, I like AmigaForever, both the user-friendly (although I really do not like their UI) packaging of UAE and the great Amiga historical videos which come with the premium version.

If you compare all commercial enterprises which make Amiga products, Amiga related products or products for the Amiga, in the end Cloanto is far from being the worse and in my eyes they seem pretty reasonable overall.

And as I said, when I have no information whatsoever about a topic I tend to assume positive outcomes, envisioning the worst only causes frustration and paralysis.

[gimbal]

WinUAE is still Tony's baby. If he's okay with it, then what's the problem?

I always saw it as paying for the kickstart roms, not for WinUAE.

[Amiga1992]

Thread derail is too much, I won't delve into it because it's just troll bait.
Let's talk about the articles at hand.

[desiv]

Originally Posted by Akira

But I wrote to another user, do you have two accounts?

No, not him..
But you didn't PM it to him, this is a FORUM.. Kinda public..
You know, lots of us read and reply to posts here..

desiv

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by desiv

No, not him..
But you didn't PM it to him, this is a FORUM.. Kinda public..
You know, lots of us read and reply to posts here..

It just sounded weird, as if you were the same person, that's all

[ReadOnlyCat]

Originally Posted by Akira

Thread derail is too much, I won't delve into it because it's just troll bait.
Let's talk about the articles at hand.

Well, you are the one who mentioned the video in your first post.

Seriously though, maybe I'm out of touch with Cloanto news (could very well be the case) but I never had the impression the community disliked them. This is just what is: an impression, and I certainly would take no pleasure in trolling you or anyone else. Civil discourse is the norm here from what I can read and that's a norm I am happy to follow.

But yes, back on topic: these articles rock!

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat

Well, you are the one who mentioned the video in your first post.

I KNOW!

I'll just say I dislike them too much. They have shut down many sites and things (like the aforementioned video) with lame excuses just because they own some part of Amiga IP which, as far as my knowledge goes, is just the kickstart ROMs, but they have seem fit to also take action where Amiga is mentioned (even though they don't own that brand, as far as I know, Hyperion does).

ANyway, all it takes is a DMCA to Youtube to take something down, you know? It's not like you need much proving. YouTube will take stuff down preemptively to avoid problems, as soon as a DMCA is filed.

[john1979]

Originally Posted by Akira

I KNOW!

I'll just say I dislike them too much. They have shut down many sites and things (like the aforementioned video) with lame excuses just because they own some part of Amiga IP which, as far as my knowledge goes, is just the kickstart ROMs, but they have seem fit to also take action where Amiga is mentioned (even though they don't own that brand, as far as I know, Hyperion does).

ANyway, all it takes is a DMCA to Youtube to take something down, you know? It's not like you need much proving. YouTube will take stuff down preemptively to avoid problems, as soon as a DMCA is filed.

I don't see why they don't release the ROMs to the public. The on going system where we get the kickstarts from torrent sites and many other places illegally is a joke. Releasing those ROMs doesn't hurt Amiga Forever. This is 20 odd year old bits of code that morally should be in the public domain, yet the idiocies of copyright law get in the way.

[desiv]

Originally Posted by john1979

I don't see why they don't release the ROMs to the public.

I'm not convinced they own the ROMs, so they might not be allowed to release them.
I thought (could be wrong) that they have a "license" to distribute them for their own emulation/distribution purposes.

I could be wrong and they might own them, but if not, "owning" and "having a license" are vastly different.

desiv