P96 Licensing Status

[Mr.Flibble]

It's a pity we (as a community) can't band together, buy the 68k source along with p96 and open-source the damned lot to finally put an end to this bullshit.

[chiark]

Originally Posted by OlafSch

why do they always have the "wrong dreams"?

I don't think people do... But I guess things get more "interesting" when money becomes involved. And then people play at law, or people misuse laws, or even have law on their side, and it all gets even more "interesting". For the avoidance of any doubt I'm not saying what's happening in this particular instance, but the Amiga world does seem beset by people having a vision, spending money and then reaching for lawyers.

Although I'm not sure Ainc ever had a vision, so I've just shot holes in my own theory . Oh well

[chiark]

Originally Posted by Mr.Flibble

It's a pity we (as a community) can't band together, buy the 68k source along with p96 and open-source the damned lot to finally put an end to this bullshit.

I've seen this happen elsewhere, not in the Amiga world. Before you know it, arguments happen and both sides - in fact all sides - claiming to have the good of the community on their side, and that people against them are acting against the community.

People. We're just a bit crap sometimes really.

And this of course assumes the ownership and license status of P96 is clear.

[aszu]

Originally Posted by Mr.Flibble

It's a pity we (as a community) can't band together, buy the 68k source along with p96 and open-source the damned lot to finally put an end to this bullshit.

Now then, that's a good idea. Will sort all the problems out

[grond]

I think some people do have wrong dreams. Look at all those billionaire fools that waste their money in football clubs. With that kind of money you could get Amigas back into the shops within five years... )

[OlafSch]

Originally Posted by grond

I think some people do have wrong dreams. Look at all those billionaire fools that waste their money in football clubs. With that kind of money you could get Amigas back into the shops within five years... <img src="images/smilies/redface.gif" border="0" alt="" title="embarrassment" smilieid="3" class="inlineimg" />)

<br />
<br />
they do not know amiga propably and never used it why should they be interested to invest in it?<br />
<br />
regarding dreams... Steve Jobs is a example (i did not like him BTW), he had the idea/vision/dream to get a computer you can put in pocket for many years until it became possible and he could do it. That kind of dream does not exist in the community, bringing something new to amiga that attracts new users, even people without amiga background. I miss that completely in the community (with exception of Pascal with aeros, dropbox-replacement and others). Not even Vampire can do that, great project but still only interesting to amiga-related people and perhaps some tech nerds. Average User outside would never be interested in it.

[grond]

It wouldn't even be investing, it would be spending play money as they are spending it now for football. See, fancy sports cars don't cut it when you are a billionaire, you need to sink your surplus money in something bigger, a football club. Of course, there are many more meaningful things you could do, e.g. have an elite team search for a cure against cancer, fund underwater archaeology or build schools for girls in poor countries. Experience shows that none of this will happen.

[Arnie]

Originally Posted by grond

build schools for girls in poor countries.

I'm intrigued; Why just Girls?

[desiv]

Originally Posted by Arnie

I'm intrigued; Why just Girls?

I believe what he's getting at...
Because there are schools already for boys..

But in many areas, education for girls isn't supported/encouraged.
(And in some areas is actively discouraged)

desiv

[daxb]

Originally Posted by Korodny

I realise that there's a language barrier, but it's important to be precise when trying to translate Jens'... bullshit.

He states he's going to urge (German: "auffordern") AF customers to buy a P96 license from him.

Yes, I think "translating" from there is not a good idea because precision got lost and personal meaning is mixed into.
Hmmm... I didn`t knew the word "urge", so I had a look into a dictionary. My says urge means "(be)drängen, dringen auf, geltend machen". For me "auffordern" is something different. "auffordern" in english means "ask, tell, to do, summon, prompt". At least my dictonaries tell me. However, at the end it is a free decision of the customer to pay or not.

@ground:
Ok, he may can find out but that doesn`t mean the he will do it or what he does with that information. My guessing is that it isn`t worth the trouble. There is not much too get only more to lose. We will see.

[OlafSch]

Jens admitted himself that he has no chance to go after amigaforever users and not very wise. So I do not understand why he opened the can at all. He sent a email that was published creating a shitstorm (of course everyone not understanding him), then he talked more sensible and situation calmed down and then he starts a new frontier again.

[alexh]

If the FPGA graphics card designers were to emulate the GD5446 register set they wouldn't need to write or include a driver with their hardware.

I believe the hardware is well documented, and has been emulated in open source software.

Any patents covering this hardware design will have expired

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by alexh

If the FPGA graphics card designers were to emulate the GD5446 register set they wouldn't need to write or include a driver with their hardware.

I believe the hardware is well documented, and has been emulated in open source software.

Any patents covering this hardware design will have expired

Are you talking about this ?
http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/cirrus_5446.pdf

Seems there are a few ideas for alternatives out there. Where do we stand as of now? What seem as the most likely outcome when the dust settles..?


Skickat från min HTC One via Tapatalk

[alexh]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

Are you talking about this ?
http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/cirrus_5446.pdf

Yes. That's the chipset used in several Classic RTG cards. I don't know if it be practical but certainly worth a look if being held to ransom

[chiark]

Given that WinUAE can emulate a few cards perfectly (eg Picasso II based on the GD5428, Piccolo SD64 based on the 5434) then I guess it is possible to convert the code emulation to an FPGA emulation implementation *. I realise this isn't as trivial as typing this message .

Must admit I was surprised to take a disk from my 3000 with a Piccolo SD64 in it that's running the EGS software and have it work perfectly on WinUAE. I was not expecting that at all!

* - can we put away the pitchforks now?

[Zetr0]

/Zetr0 Grumbles at the world "emulation" used incorrectly in regards to FPGA technology


Emulation has many abstraction layers - this (FPGA) is a silicon implementation - it is - after power cycle - metal to be banged - not software, not emulation - a real breathing (cycling) processor.

[Lord Aga]

Yup. I don't know why people continue to use this word when it comes to FPGAs.

Emulation - one thing mimicking the other. Windows mimicking Workbench through WinUAE. x86 "mimicking" 68K set through WinUAE and so on.

FPGAs used in Vampires and new graphic cards have no other (primary) purpose but to run Amiga instructions. Hence - no emulation is taking place here.

[idrougge]

It still isn't a GD5428.

[Lord Aga]

MC68020 isn't MC68000. Is it an emulator ?

[demolition]

I don't like the word either as it can be misleading but depending on which definition you take on the word, it is not entirely incorrect that an FPGA implementation of a 68000 is emulating a real 68000. Using that definition, a 68020 is also emulating a 68000 since it can run most of the same software but is not a real 68000.

But when most people here hear the word emulation, they think of software like WinUAE, and that is something completely different so I'd also prefer to not use the word emulation in conjunction with FPGAs.