Sprite scaling pseudo-3D engines (Lotus, XJ220...), how were they done?

[dex]

Hey there!

I remember some other thread about this topic but I just can't seem to find it (was there any?)

Is there any information on the net on how games like Lotus were actually done? On the Amiga in particular but also in general. How did it work from a technical point of view? How were actual "maps", worlds or racing tracks created? How did coders cope with the technical limitations of the Amiga and what did they have to exploit to get things to work? I am interested in engines for games like the Lotus series, Jaguar XJ220, Space Harrer, the 3D-sequences of Awesome or Black Viper, Space Harrier or Super Hang-On.

Well if someone knows something about the technical side or other interesting information about these engines, please post it here

[Marcuz]

I think it was used in Eye of the Beholder too, for the monsters only, and I'm curious as whether the scaling of the same sprite resulted always in the same, pixel by pixel reduced version at different times at the same scaling factor, or if there was some randomness or other variables affecting the result.

[TCD]

This might be an interesting read then: http://www.extentofthejam.com/pseudo/

[dex]

Wow CyberDruid... this is actually exactly what I was looking for, amazing! Thanks!

Interesting information about Eye of the Beholder, played through the whole game and never realized that. Still, if any of you guys got any more nifty facts, feel free to post

[TCD]

You're welcome

[Mrs Beanbag]

I believe Lotus et al just stored copies of the various objects of different sizes.

[s2325]

They made some nice tricks:



And this fence look almost like 3D (or maybe it is).

[Lord Riton]

Originally Posted by s2325

And this fence look almost like 3D (or maybe it is).

Depends what you call 3D.

In fact, nothing on a flat screen can really be 3D

Even on so called 3D TVs, the objects we see as 3D objects, are not really in 3D, because the screen is indeed flat as well

We get the illusion of 3D objects. For me 3D is a matter of feeling, and if this game gives enough of a "3D feelling" to you, then call it 3D if you like

[dex]

Somehow I also feel that those games (Lotus series in particular) had some kind of "open" or even "endless" feel. I don't exactly know why, any ideas? The only recent games that gave me that impression were "Need for Speed Hot Pursuit" (the 2010 one from Criterion) and "Need for Speed Most Wanted" (also the 2012 one from Criterion), both great "current gen" games by the way, I like them far more than the "illegal street race" type "Carbon" etc. games.

I mean Outrun even had A-B roads, but Lotus and XJ220 roads felt "endless" or more open even during lap races. Just my imagination...? Don't even know how to explain xD

[Mrs Beanbag]

The fence is, I suspect, pre-scaled bobs for the posts and blitter-drawn lines. It's 3D in the sense that there are X, Y and Z co-ordinates involved, but no rotations, only translations. Maybe this explains the "endless" feel - the road always goes in one direction, along the positive Z axis, and just moves side to side and up and down rather than actually bending round.

Also you never get any closer to the objects on the skyline!

[dex]

Right, the skyline... of course!

[Marcuz]

Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag

Also you never get any closer to the objects on the skyline!

You haven't play it long enough.

[dex]

Originally Posted by Marcuz

You haven't play it long enough.

That post was ace! xD

[s2325]

Lotus HD for Xbox 360

[dex]

Hehe yeah xD Only a couple of years ago you would've also had to make it a LOT more grey and brown - not to mention the fake HDR... xD

[utri007]

I don't know is this about pixel scaling, but best looking "3D game" for A500 is Narco police, it looks like 3D

[Retro1234]

How is the floor done on the racing games? Just constant redraw or theres some scrolling?

[Lord Riton]

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

How is the floor done on the racing games? Just constant redraw or theres some scrolling?

Not sure how they were done exactly, but i can very imagine just one or maybe 2 bitplanes affected to the road/floor, and then playing with copper color bars and redrawing these 1/2 bitplanes entierly. 2 bitplanes shouldn't take to much time to redraw. Probably best using dual playfield mode (?)

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

How is the floor done on the racing games? Just constant redraw or theres some scrolling?

Check my first post in this thread. That article is exactly about that

[Retro1234]

Thanks still not 100% sure about some it like bringing in a corner shame the Qbasic link seems dead