Beats of Fire

[turrican3]

I really like the building in construction and the new posters.

[tomcat666]

Definitely under construction

[turrican3]

I don't know if Paul send you my version with a wink wink about the amiga.
It's the same like your but with less colours.

[Steve T]

I'm not sure what you mean totally, this has the exact same number of colours - 32 - this was started from your version (as i think we talked about over email)... The one with the clouds - I was going to put the clouds back in (as that was all i was going to do, originally, just blend the clouds lol) but the rest took so long i reverted it back to a plain blue sky, but hey at least there's no dithering on that part

Honestly it quickly got out of hand, I didn't set out to redo anything, but suddenly I was hip-deep in someone elses pixels... Who's pixels they were, I don't entirely know really, but some were yours! I know as an artist i don't really like people editing my work... I hope that doesn't cause offense.

I'm really pleased with the comments and praise for this single image so far, but no one should forget how hard Turrican has worked and continues to work on this game, which can be a thankless task at times... Thanks man, I'd never be able to make as solid a contribution as you have, and I'm really looking forward to seeing your continuing work on the game.

[turrican3]

Ok i take my version and i mixed it wit the steve T version...
This is the more dithering i can support.

[turrican3]

It could give something like this... But i'll have to change one or 2 things. It's better with your work in.
Thank you to help me.

[leathered]

Steve: Well I'll just say this; getting graphics like this is like getting free therapy (and yes, I should know). The fact that you're able to consider things like the luminance etc. is just the kind of thing lacking from my amateur pov.
Thanks for your input on this and for the new palettes to take home and check over the stuff with.

Turrican3: I've told you already in email that this is going over to Steve - so don't greatly appreciate what you're trying to do here. It's better than the first gfx you sent, but loses the great detail and effort put in by a professional – work that I feel lucky to have!
Steve gets the job on this one. That's not to detract from the volume of work you've done, not to mention the enthusiasm you've put in.
You are also great personnel recruiter – contributing to getting others on board, but you can be a public relations nightmare!
Graphics are always subjective, but I can't help but feel your subjectivity is being adversely affected by your involvement – in other words, your ego is having a hard time with it this time dude.
You have improved as a gfx artist, and will with all the effort you're putting in continue to do so.
I hope you can realise the accomplishment of Steve and also your part in creating that possibility.
In any case, let this one go and help bring something else to life!

PS; WTF happened to Guy in the last pic? Your version looks like this!

EDIT: My bad over Guy, poxy phone again!

[adrdesign]

Gorgeous graphics there... !

[Steve T]

As Leathered said, we are looking into some palette changes to brighten up the whole thing, I've made some suggestions, as you can see in those above pics that Turrican3 has posted tonight, there's a real lack of warmth in the greys which are too greeny/olive and its all a bit lacking in primaries, compared to what I posted on the previous page, arcade games should have plenty of vivid colour (generally without being psychedelic)and warmth... Hopefully what I've done with the graphic adds some of that.

The only way I could add primaries and warm the greys was by changing the free pallete, this meant that a few tones from the fixed palette weren't used at all, or very little because they just didn't fit, or were too close to another tone in the fixed pallete... So we're trying to make the fixed palette broader, more useful & attractive, while keeping it from breaking all the graphics work done so far.

I think there might be just 30 different tones in my image.

So hopefully *if* that works out I'm going to be able to put a few more tones in my bonus round background to help it all stick together better - though I think it works OK as is - it won't look drastically different and the interpolation *will* be staying, but it will be smoother.

I think Guy will look even better with the new palette.

I appreciate your efforts Turrican3, without you I wouldn't have been able to do this, I hope there will be no hard feelings if occasionally some of my work is used in place of your own.

-Steve.

[turrican3]

I will never have any hard feeling about you steve t, you did a great job but really i can't like a pic when there is so much dithering... Like you see i integrated many of your work in mine but i don't like too much dithering that's all. It's not my ego, if Leathered remember well, i always said him that i didn't like too much dithering. a little bit yes, so much no.
But it doesn't take anything about your great graphics, i like what you did but with less dithering. It's really just a question of taste nothing personnal and nothing about my ego, be sure of this.
You did a great job, be proud of it.

Be sure that my only goal is to have the best graphics, but i'm still thinking that too much dithering is too much. It's my pov and i can have this one.
Believe me when i said that there is nothing personnal.
I read your message after I did all theses posts, i won't work against you or steve t.
If you prefer dethering ok, as you want but i won't agree on this part from what i see for the moment, i really prefer the mix than the full dither gfx, i can give my pov and i will like usual.

Originally Posted by leathered

Steve: Well I'll just say this; getting graphics like this is like getting free therapy (and yes, I should know). The fact that you're able to consider things like the luminance etc. is just the kind of thing lacking from my amateur pov.
Thanks for your input on this and for the new palettes to take home and check over the stuff with.

Turrican3: I've told you already in email that this is going over to Steve - so don't greatly appreciate what you're trying to do here. It's better than the first gfx you sent, but loses the great detail and effort put in by a professional – work that I feel lucky to have!
Steve gets the job on this one. That's not to detract from the volume of work you've done, not to mention the enthusiasm you've put in.
You are also great personnel recruiter – contributing to getting others on board, but you can be a public relations nightmare!
Graphics are always subjective, but I can't help but feel your subjectivity is being adversely affected by your involvement – in other words, your ego is having a hard time with it this time dude.
You have improved as a gfx artist, and will with all the effort you're putting in continue to do so.
I hope you can realise the accomplishment of Steve and also your part in creating that possibility.
In any case, let this one go and help bring something else to life!

PS; WTF happened to Guy in the last pic? Your version looks like this!

EDIT: My bad over Guy, poxy phone again!

[ovale]

I agree with Turrican3. Steve's pic has too much dithering it looks like a ST conversion. All that dithering would also clash with the smoothness of the sprites. The colors look quite different from the arcade. Lot of primary colors while the arcade has lot of greys.
Plus, if you decide to add such amount of manual refinement you must be able to support it for the whole game or it will look out of place.

That said I'm admired of what you are creating here you all are awesome.

I hope you can post soon a new video on youtube.

Thanks!

[Steve T]

we're working to improve the neutral spread (greys), so we can make everything warmer and more subtle. I find the comments about how it wont fit with other graphics spurious, particularly the character graphics, but from what i've seen, all the graphics need more work. I haven't posted any mockups yet and won't until the palette is fixed so don't judge something you haven't seen.

Its never going look exactly like the arcade anyway with only 32 cols, (yes there's a lot of grey but there's also a lot of colour) so say what you like and make comments about ST conversions if you want.(Wow, thats pretty low dude) But as you will eventually see once the other elements are in it looks far more in-place in my image than in other versions.

[demoniac]

Originally Posted by Steve T

Looking at it on EAB, Does it look like the skyscraper is under construction or on fire?

Heh, I didn't of them being flames until you pointed them out.

Great work guys. I like the hybrid version better -- probably because it retains more of the original "charm"/feel while improving the gfx.

[Adrian Browne]

Originally Posted by Steve T

we're working to improve the neutral spread (greys), so we can make everything warmer and more subtle. I find the comments about how it wont fit with other graphics spurious, particularly the character graphics, but from what i've seen, all the graphics need more work. I haven't posted any mockups yet and won't until the palette is fixed so don't judge something you haven't seen.

Its never going look exactly like the arcade anyway with only 32 cols, (yes there's a lot of grey but there's also a lot of colour) so say what you like and make comments about ST conversions if you want.(Wow, thats pretty low dude) But as you will eventually see once the other elements are in it looks far more in-place in my image than in other versions.

Ok. Cool. Let's wait until you have more to show. It's really cool that this project exists to begin with.

[Raislin77it]

Originally Posted by Steve T

we're working to improve the neutral spread (greys), so we can make everything warmer and more subtle. I find the comments about how it wont fit with other graphics spurious, particularly the character graphics, but from what i've seen, all the graphics need more work. I haven't posted any mockups yet and won't until the palette is fixed so don't judge something you haven't seen.

Its never going look exactly like the arcade anyway with only 32 cols, (yes there's a lot of grey but there's also a lot of colour) so say what you like and make comments about ST conversions if you want.(Wow, thats pretty low dude) But as you will eventually see once the other elements are in it looks far more in-place in my image than in other versions.

just some stupid mockup from me (using the spectacular downbringer 32 color palette )

original






32 color (no dithering, no none only the remap color of ppaint )





this is the palette

[s2325]

Oh no, boobs details are lost.

[Raislin77it]

Originally Posted by s2325

Oh no, boobs details are lost.

ehehehe yes, because this is ppaint at work
maybe an artist can make the "boobs" stand out

[turrican3]

Originally Posted by s2325

Oh no, boobs details are lost.

And this not so easy, you have to select colors for all guys and all stuffs( phones, barrels) because they are repeating all along the game. You have to keep always the same 23 colours and just swap the last 9 and you have your 32 colours but hopefully with the help of the copper we could respect the originals gfx more or less. If it was so easy i should have finished the gfx for a long time. Thank you for your comments.

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by Steve T

As Leathered said, we are looking into some palette changes to brighten up the whole thing, I've made some suggestions, as you can see in those above pics that Turrican3 has posted tonight, there's a real lack of warmth in the greys which are too greeny/olive and its all a bit lacking in primaries, compared to what I posted on the previous page, arcade games should have plenty of vivid colour (generally without being psychedelic)and warmth... Hopefully what I've done with the graphic adds some of that.

The only way I could add primaries and warm the greys was by changing the free pallete, this meant that a few tones from the fixed palette weren't used at all, or very little because they just didn't fit, or were too close to another tone in the fixed pallete... So we're trying to make the fixed palette broader, more useful & attractive, while keeping it from breaking all the graphics work done so far.

I think there might be just 30 different tones in my image.

So hopefully *if* that works out I'm going to be able to put a few more tones in my bonus round background to help it all stick together better - though I think it works OK as is - it won't look drastically different and the interpolation *will* be staying, but it will be smoother.

I think Guy will look even better with the new palette.

I appreciate your efforts Turrican3, without you I wouldn't have been able to do this, I hope there will be no hard feelings if occasionally some of my work is used in place of your own.

-Steve.

Well, welcome Steve

What i can say, from here, is that final fight original arcade game use a truckload colors to be converted correctly in 32 colors. R. Aplin had troubles with this on the A500 version. The best compromise is 64 colors and A1200 for the processing power. The 500 even with 2mb of chip is underpowered if you want to do colors+animations+music+sound.

I remark however that you are VERY talented, guy has never looked so good until now.

I have already extracted from the CPS1 game code and tiles some enemies sprites frames (i think leathered should have sent them to you).

guy and haggar use something like 80 sprites frames, Damned is 37-42 frames, Edi.e 42 frames, and lately i was on G.Oriber and cousins sprites, which are totalizing a big 63 frames each.

My only problem is that making the tiles words and the actual sprites tiles is SO time consuming because i have no tool to do this

I can't actually spend 8 hours a days per enemy sprite type (not kidding, i must crawl in Final Fight ASM code, find the tiles word VRAM codes, and then the right palette, and build the sprites frames from tiles.

[turrican3]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

Well, welcome Steve

What i can say, from here, is that final fight original arcade game use a truckload colors to be converted correctly in 32 colors. R. Aplin had troubles with this on the A500 version. The best compromise is 64 colors and A1200 for the processing power. The 500 even with 2mb of chip is underpowered if you want to do colors+animations+music+sound.

I remark however that you are VERY talented, guy has never looked so good until now.

I have already extracted from the CPS1 game code and tiles some enemies sprites frames (i think leathered should have sent them to you).

guy and haggar use something like 80 sprites frames, Damned is 37-42 frames, Edi.e 42 frames, and lately i was on G.Oriber and cousins sprites, which are totalizing a big 63 frames each.

My only problem is that making the tiles words and the actual sprites tiles is SO time consuming because i have no tool to do this

I can't actually spend 8 hours a days per enemy sprite type (not kidding, i must crawl in Final Fight ASM code, find the tiles word VRAM codes, and then the right palette, and build the sprites frames from tiles.

Thanks for you're comment and i really appreciate you like my work on "GUY".