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Old 14 February 2010, 16:54   #1
ipod_sock
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Demo wanted in .adf or .dms?

Anyone help me with this one? have been looking everywhere for a demo by the much loved Phenomena called 'Animotion', (beautiful music, equal to Enigma?) but can only find it on YouTube, an .exe file (WTF?!?) or .lha, just want it in .dms or .adf format for play on my Miggy 500. Now despite being from the early 90's and being able to find almost ANY other demo in these preferred formats, can't find this baby ANYWHERE!!! anyone assist? would be muchos grateful!
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Old 14 February 2010, 16:56   #2
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You can insert exe file just like adf, it's hidden feature And yes, it's really good demo.
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Old 14 February 2010, 16:56   #3
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Why do you need in in adf/dms format? If you just want to watch it in WinUAE just "insert" the .exe in df0: and enjoy.
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Old 14 February 2010, 17:01   #4
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Anyone help me with this one? have been looking everywhere for a demo by the much loved Phenomena called 'Animotion', (beautiful music, equal to Enigma?) but can only find it on YouTube, an .exe file (WTF?!?) or .lha, just want it in .dms or .adf format for play on my Miggy 500. Now despite being from the early 90's and being able to find almost ANY other demo in these preferred formats, can't find this baby ANYWHERE!!! anyone assist? would be muchos grateful!
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Old 14 February 2010, 17:03   #5
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Wow, fast answers guys, thanks! I didn't know that bout WinUAE and will try it but would still love it in .adf/.dms format
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Old 14 February 2010, 17:05   #6
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Thanks Galahad/FLT... legend!!!
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Old 15 February 2010, 01:44   #7
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Wink

First of all, apologies for the triple posting but it understadibly went kinda quiet after request was thankfully fulfilled. After watching and listening to this atmospheric/hauntingly good sounding production yet again I simply HAVE to to air something I've been thinking about the last few years (obviously never knew 'back then') but how on EARTH did a bunch of kids from Norway/Holland/other generic European city manage such technical feats? not just in terms of coding ability but the graphics, the music? Where they just exceptionally talented or was it relatively easy to do... I'm thinking NOT! I wouldn't have a clue where to start?!?!?

I knows what I like and am FAR too critical but don't have an OUNCE of creativity in me anyway, surely I'm not the ONLY one to wonder bout this?

Whilst I'm at it, as I'm new here and still don't know Adam from Eve, if anyone playing here dabbled in the scene 'back then', thanks for the memories... I think my Budbrain, RedSector/Cebit90 and Phenomena/Enigma disks wore away after multiple 100's of plays!

Yours in AWE... again iPod_sock
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Old 15 February 2010, 08:08   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipod_sock
how on EARTH did a bunch of kids from Norway/Holland/other generic European city manage such technical feats? not just in terms of coding ability but the graphics, the music? Where they just exceptionally talented or was it relatively easy to do... I'm thinking NOT!
Easy to do...? No.
Exceptionally talented...? Yes.

That's why I love demos - to me they're really a true artform. Doing something innovative or memorable definitely takes artistic talent from all involved - code, music and graphics in my opinion.

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Whilst I'm at it, as I'm new here and still don't know Adam from Eve, if anyone playing here dabbled in the scene 'back then', thanks for the memories...
Two of the big talents from the scene helped you out with your request! In case you're wondering that'd be Galahad and StingRay.
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Old 15 February 2010, 12:35   #9
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Thought so, just amazes me that kids back then (and to a certain extent, still) in European countries were so... 'advanced', usually (well in THIS country anyway) they're running around in hoodies stabbing people and drinking 'Lazer', how on earth did they learn to do it when I was tinkering around with Operation Thunderbolt and Speedball 2!?!
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Old 15 February 2010, 12:49   #10
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Originally Posted by ipod_sock
usually (well in THIS country anyway) they're running around in hoodies stabbing people and drinking 'Lazer'
LOL.

Well, *some* UK kids were knocking out cool stuff - Galahad's a UK guy - plus you've got others like the guys from Anarchy, LSD etc which were UK groups.
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Old 15 February 2010, 14:48   #11
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But how!?!? how did thy even know where to start? what did they programme in? assembler? c? c+? was this time consuming? how did they learn to compose amazing music? and also (sometimes learn to crack)... how?!?!

EDIT: I'm also aware of the fact that this is a 'problem' section for demos, would there a better vehicle thread in which to discuss the above? and/or anyone had such a discussion already?

Last edited by ipod_sock; 15 February 2010 at 15:08.
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Old 15 February 2010, 15:19   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipod_sock
what did they programme in? assembler?
Yes. In assembler. It's the only way to get enough speed and enough control over the hardware to do demo effects.

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Originally Posted by ipod_sock
how?!?!
Reading / learning then practice, hard work, dedication and experimentation I'd say.

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Originally Posted by ipod_sock
was this time consuming?
This would vary depending on what they were making, previous experience etc. but in general, yes.

As an example it took me around two months to do my hidden line vector routine going from no knowledge of how to do blitter line draw and no understanding of vectors through to a piece of code that showed a hidden line vector cube. It then took another two months to develop this routine into one that could handle multiple objects and to bolt the rest of the bits of a demo around it. Of course if I was to repeat this process it would now be much quicker. Though, don't forget I'm not a teenager with lots of time and no other responsibilities to take me away from coding so I suppose I could've been quicker under different circumstances...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ipod_sock
how did they learn to compose amazing music?
Well, no different to anyone who composes any other type of music would be my guess. As long as the inspiration for the tunes and melodies is there the rest is just practice to learn the "instrument" in this case ProTracker or whatever instead of a guitar or piano or something...

Same would be true of graphics I suppose - if you can draw and you've got inspiration it's just a matter of learning DPaint or whatever.
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Old 15 February 2010, 21:13   #13
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But how!?!? how did thy even know where to start? what did they programme in? assembler? c? c+? was this time consuming? how did they learn to compose amazing music? and also (sometimes learn to crack)... how?!?!

EDIT: I'm also aware of the fact that this is a 'problem' section for demos, would there a better vehicle thread in which to discuss the above? and/or anyone had such a discussion already?
This might be spurious, but I personally think the media-savvy influences for Euro coders were more powerful than what he had in the UK during the late 80s/90s. For example, if you look at some vintage Swedish/German/Dutch TV presentation (graphics, animations etc.) they clearly had a bearing on the kind of "presentation" some of the best Amiga demos displayed.

I seem to remember the UK was still quite an old-fashioned place compared to other more progressive parts of Europe in the early 90s, and that lack of polish seemed to be reflected in our scene output. I remember thinking that even the best of what we had to offer still looked "a bit UK" (as I used to describe it).

Incidentally, EAB member Photon might be able to offer a more Phenomena-centric take on why their demos were so astonishing (Mr Gurk, Biggan, Firefox & Tip (& Mantronix) were all legendary names back in 1989!)

Sorry for ramble.
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Old 15 February 2010, 21:25   #14
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I agree with Mark.

I think for the most part, the people in the UK were largely influenced by what they saw from coders/graphics/musicians from the rest of Europe.

Theres a distinct style change over the years, where the likes of Anarchy and Digital (Previously Magnetic Fields) started emulating the style of other countries output.

Lots of the innovative stuff was all from Europe as well, with many of the UK coders simply either copying the effects, but it was rare to have a UK production be the first to have something properly 'wow'.

I think also in the UK, the gravitas was more toward spreading pirated software than being demo-centric, whereas it seemed to be the other way around in the rest of Europe.

Thats not to say all of the UK people were not as talented as their European counterparts, far from it.

The likes of 4-Mat were doing great music right from the off, Kreator/Anarchy was doing great things as well.
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Old 15 February 2010, 21:47   #15
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I agree with Mark.

I think for the most part, the people in the UK were largely influenced by what they saw from coders/graphics/musicians from the rest of Europe.

Theres a distinct style change over the years, where the likes of Anarchy and Digital (Previously Magnetic Fields) started emulating the style of other countries output.

Lots of the innovative stuff was all from Europe as well, with many of the UK coders simply either copying the effects, but it was rare to have a UK production be the first to have something properly 'wow'.

I think also in the UK, the gravitas was more toward spreading pirated software than being demo-centric, whereas it seemed to be the other way around in the rest of Europe.

Thats not to say all of the UK people were not as talented as their European counterparts, far from it.

The likes of 4-Mat were doing great music right from the off, Kreator/Anarchy was doing great things as well.
Agreed

When I was a member of Magnetic Fields I can remember feeling great pride at us releasing "Hysteresis" which, while far from perfect, seemed to mark a watershed moment in UK megademo releases, purely thanks to the talent of Spook - who promptly left for America. Mind you, it was really just a copy of the Euro style and offered little new.

Having come from "Silents UK" (Cyrus Corp) to MF, I was used to cringing at our sub-standard output compared to the genius of the Danish and Swedish divisions. That said, I think a lot of UK demos were really catering to the UK market for juvenile junk; Slipstream's "Duck" demo, SAE's "Boys In Blue" are just two examples of the type of things that would provoke an "oh, how UK" from me.

It wasn't until the likes of Anarchy got their act together that the UK finally had something to shout about in the demo world. Up until the formation of Anarchy (via Mayhem, Slipstream, THR, SAE, Cyrus, MF, etc.) we were really quite lame here in the UK - for every TRSI we had a Pendle Europa, for every Phenomena, a Pseudo-Ops.

We were killer original suppliers/crackers though, from the Amiga's earliest days (TKT/Oracle) through to (ironically) the end of its commercial life. Pity there were so many RSI demo maker efforts and "Boot Girl" style tacked-on "spread intros" originating from the UK though!
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Old 15 February 2010, 22:33   #16
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Firefox & Tip... Enigma... nuff said, simply flawless track, so layered and complex,whilst simple, if you get my meaning! Used to make the hairs on my neck stand on end! (yea, I know, need to get out more, lol).

Ohhhhhhh, it's getting quite deep in here now and I'm loving it! Can't help thinking someone should do a docu on the scene, it's impact over the years and how it continues to this very day!

For example, I've only recently found that 'Desert Dream' from the Kefrens was 'redone' for the C64!!! and now in 2010 they're doing MP3 on the same machine!

F**king INSANE!!!
part1 [ Show youtube player ]
part2 [ Show youtube player ]

*downloads 'Hysteresis'*

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Old 16 February 2010, 02:43   #17
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Agreed

When I was a member of Magnetic Fields I can remember feeling great pride at us releasing "Hysteresis" which, while far from perfect, seemed to mark a watershed moment in UK megademo releases
Just to be safe, we should point out that the Magnetic Fields where you were in have absolutely nothing to do with the developing team of same name which did lots of stuff for Gremlin.

You may snigger, but this does get often confused afaics. (Too often.)
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Old 16 February 2010, 02:54   #18
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Just to be safe, we should point out that the Magnetic Fields where you were in have absolutely nothing to do with the developing team of same name which did lots of stuff for Gremlin.

You may snigger, but this does get often confused afaics. (Too often.)
Maybe it's because one of our members Chronos (Matt Furniss) worked with Pete Harrap at Teque and Gremlin on various C64/Amiga soundtracks. Also famous for his "Fresh House" Noisetracker module which many NT users would be familiar with as it was included on one of the distributions.

But you're right, Magnetic Fields studio <> Magnetic Fields Manchester/Yorkshire-based demo (hello Frap!) and rather lame "compact disk" warez-spreading group (hello Cosy and No.5!).
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Old 16 February 2010, 02:56   #19
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*downloads 'Hysteresis'*
I've just done the same.

Yikes.

Much more *UK* than I remembered!
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Old 16 February 2010, 10:48   #20
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I liked the bouncing scrolly!!! I used to LOVE scrollies, some of the Euro groups used to take liberties with some of the routines though, going backwards, too fast, performing all kinds of twisty/turny effects! lol

I think have probably read ALL of the Digital Concert scrollies

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