WinUAE 2.4.0 beta series

[Toni Wilen]

Thanks. Answered in moonstone thread.

[Dr.Venom]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Beta 3:

http://www.winuae.net/files/b/winuae_2400b3.zip

Long waited fastest possible CPU vsync is here! Maybe.

- Experimental new vsync mode for fastest possible/JIT CPU modes. Tested using WHDLoad demos and games.

Awesome . First impressions are that it is working very well. Workbench stuff is working really fast, and most whdload games and demos run without problems. Specific cool things: Just ran the TBL - Starstruck demo and it's running really very very smoothly... . End scroller part of Big Time Sensuality by Axis is also flawless.

* - This mode is currently buffered, used to hide horrible tearing (flip timing is much more complex if fastest possible CPU), will be hopefully improved later.

Hopefully that's possible, as the latency introduced is very noticable for faster games (like eg Pinball Dreams..) when compared to the unbuffered cycle exact mode.

* - Sound pitch changes possible, this also needs some improving later.

Only noticable sound issue I found up till now is the WHDLoad version of Jim Power, where the high pitched sound of your bullet hitting enemies is off-pitch in fastest possible mode. Running the same config with only changing 'fastest possible' mode to 'cycle exact' mode the sound is OK.

[Steve]

I tried WHDLoad Breathless and it completely crawled. Tried windowed mode and it worked better until I made the window larger to see the display, then it crawled.

Quick question that probably isn't beta related. What has happened to keyboard input?? Is it broken? Why do I have to select 'Game Ports Panel' in the Input section to get the keyboard working again, thus losing my custom configured game pad settings? What has happened? Is it like this by design now??

Tried with standard non-JIT low-latency fs config and received mixed results with this beta compared to the last version. CPU usage is now 90-100% compared with 40-50% in the previous official release. Has my CPU fan whirling round like a banshee. Setting JIT makes no real difference although if I also switch on the fastest possible mode then it really slows down and CPU usage is upto 150%. Is this because it is just a debug executable or maybe somthing else?

[msayed1977]

- Mode switching can leave old graphics garbage, this will be fixed later.

Please don't forget to fix very soon.

[Toni Wilen]

Quick question that probably isn't beta related.

Do a quick test first before deciding if it is or not beta related..

Tried with standard non-JIT low-latency fs config and received mixed results with this beta compared to the last version. CPU usage is now 90-100% compared with 40-50% in the previous official release. Has my CPU fan whirling round like a banshee. Setting JIT makes no real difference although if I also switch on the fastest possible mode then it really slows down and CPU usage is upto 150%. Is this because it is just a debug executable or maybe somthing else?

Non-fastest CPU modes should be the same, perhaps something got broken.

Fastest possible or JIT vsync requires much more CPU power. Perhaps even a triple/quad core CPU so that both main UAE thread and vblank thread get near 100% CPU time. Unfortunately there really isn't any other way to make JIT+vsync to work perfectly. Fastest possible without JIT can work (it did in b2, this beta uses new mode for both. Future versions may have an option).

I tested this on my laptop and it didn't seem to cause any more fan sound than normal fastest possible CPU mode. Buy a better cooler or PC

Whats your hardware specs?

Please don't forget to fix very soon.

It should be fixed. You sure you aren't confusing this with buggy programs with missing blitter waits? These commonly cause random crap if emulation configuration isn't exact enough.

[Steve]

No it wasn't beta related. Stilll weird though.

Dual Core Pentium 2.13Ghz. Geforce 9800GTX+, 2GB RAM, 750watt PSU. No extra cooling systems!

[Dr.Venom]

Originally Posted by Steve

I tried WHDLoad Breathless and it completely crawled. Tried windowed mode and it worked better until I made the window larger to see the display, then it crawled.

FWIW (this isn't to say there isn't an issue with the beta), but I can't confirm this slowdown on my setup. Breathless runs mostly smoothly in full-screen mode up to the largest screen/window setting within Breathless config.

Tried with standard non-JIT low-latency fs config and received mixed results with this beta compared to the last version. CPU usage is now 90-100% compared with 40-50% in the previous official release.

Can't confirm this either. Both B2 and B3 consume about 40% CPU (as shown by the onscreen LED) on my setup when using non-fastest CPU modes, much the same as the previous official release. When using fastest possible, both B2 and B3 show onscreen leds at 100% cpu usage. Are you sure you didn't accidentally compare a fastest possible with a non-fastest possible config?

Has my CPU fan whirling round like a banshee. Setting JIT makes no real difference although if I also switch on the fastest possible mode then it really slows down and CPU usage is upto 150%. Is this because it is just a debug executable or maybe somthing else?

When comparing non-fastest (cycle-exact) to fastest mode my CPU fan will also make more noise, but to me that's normal since the CPU is stretched more. Also in my setup there's no difference in additional fan whirling between the fastest possible modes (non-vsynced) in =<2.3.3 releases and the vsynced fastest possible modes in these beta's. They both whirl up the fan a bit. This is on a Core I7-920 overclocked to 4Ghz with a Scythe Mugen 3 cooler (which when not stressed runs at about 400 RPM )

Toni, I'm not sure, what is the expected behaviour for the "CPU Idle" setting/slider in these beta's? Should it be able to lower the 100% cpu usage in the onscreen led to something less when used? Currently the setting doesn't seem to have impact, but maybe I'm missing something (never made much use of this setting..)

[rsn8887]

When using non-latency Vsync without cycle exact and any speed setting "Fastest Possible/approximate A1200/adjustable CPU," I am getting jerky scrolling and pretty terrible screen tearing. Tested with Beta 3 and Hyperdrive (PD-Game). Problem remains when setting priority to above normal, increasing cpu idle or switching buffering between no/double/triple.

Logs are attached.

Scrolling is perfect in non-latency Vsync mode when using cycle exact. Sadly, some other games have slow down in this mode, I think because my PC is not fast enough for cycle exact A1200 mode when there's lots going on (e.g. in Slamtilt).

I have a dual core machine. It is a 2.8 GHz Pentium D. I am using Directdraw and 100 Hz (PAL). I tried briefly using Direct3D, but got a blue screen.

Dump from that Direct3D crash is also attached.

This might be related: Before non-latency Vsync was implemented, the old Vsync actually worked for me in fastest possible. It was weird though, because CPU usage was NOT at 100%. Since non-latency Vsync was implemented, the old Vsync has jerky scrolling now.

EDIT: When I use Directsound instead of Portaudio/ASIO4ALL, the scrolling is not jerky, there's some sound pitch shifting, and there's still tearing. I suppose the new vsync mode is related to sound? If I disable sound emulation, the emulator runs at 400 fps!

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by Dr.Venom

Toni, I'm not sure, what is the expected behaviour for the "CPU Idle" setting/slider in these beta's? Should it be able to lower the 100% cpu usage in the onscreen led to something less when used? Currently the setting doesn't seem to have impact, but maybe I'm missing something (never made much use of this setting..)

I am not yet sure if it even can work in vsync modes

Originally Posted by rsn8887

Scrolling is perfect in non-latency Vsync mode when using cycle exact. Sadly, some other games have slow down in this mode, I think because my PC is not fast enough for cycle exact A1200 mode when there's lots going on (e.g. in Slamtilt).

Normal vsync modes can be broken, later..

I tried briefly using Direct3D, but got a blue screen.

Update your display drivers. DirectDraw support isn't update yet. It is always D3D that comes first, when it is considered working, DirectDraw gets updated. (I don't want to rewrite both code paths multiple times)

EDIT: When I use Directsound instead of Portaudio/ASIO4ALL, the scrolling is not jerky, there's some sound pitch shifting, and there's still tearing. I suppose the new vsync mode is related to sound? If I disable sound emulation, the emulator runs at 400 fps!

Only DirectSound has autoadjustment (+pitch changes). Sound tweaks will come later.

It is always good idea to use normal defaults when testing new features (DirectSound, D3D) and then compare differences.

[Toni Wilen]

http://www.winuae.net/files/b/winuae_2400b4.zip

Beta 4:

- Another switching from CE mode to non-CE hang fix. (Blitter nasty related)
- Another too fast CPU audio hack update, fixes random glitches (Uridium II, Moonstone, probably many others)
- Low latency vsync buffering change, selected buffering mode can be modified now.
* - No buffering is same as previously
* - Double and triple buffering can be enabled, increases latency but can reduce random jumps.
- Fastest possible CPU low latency vsync update:
* - Works now without buffering
* - Flips buffers in vblank thread (Flipping timing is correct now, tearing gone)

[rsn8887]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

It is always good idea to use normal defaults when testing new features (DirectSound, D3D) and then compare differences.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up.

I just tested newest beta 4 using Directsound and Direct3d.

Tearing is gone, scrolling is mostly smooth.

However, there are still random stutters in the scrolling, jerky scrolling, usually one or two per second, sometimes much more frequent, sometimes less. It seems to depend on how much is going on in the game, but I am not sure about that. I tested mostly with Slamtilt, but also with Hyperdrive. Much less is going on in Hyperdrive, still see some stutters. Stuttering is worse at low sound buffer settings (1,2), but does not go away at larger buffer settings. Double or triple buffer doesn't change it.

I am attaching the logs.

[Toni Wilen]

Another test: http://www.winuae.net/files/b/winuae.zip

This version does not lose frames even if vblank detection gets delayed for a few milliseconds (one PAL frame is only 20ms, NTSC is ~16ms). Delayed vblank now causes tearing at the top of screen which is less annoying than jumps.

Try following base configuration, when/if it works, then try your custom configuration(s):

- low latency vsync
- directsound, buffer 4
- 50hz or 60hz refresh rate (100Hz+ may not work yet) Test also 60Hz because sometimes 50Hz simply won't work even if monitor supports it.
- fullscreen (windowed usually also works but Aero can cause issues in some situations)
- try all buffering setups
- cycle-exact (a500 or 1200), fastest possible and JIT. (Interestingly JIT may work better than non-JIT fastest possible!)

[rsn8887]

I only tested 100 Hz so far (cannot test 50 Hz) and a bit of 60 Hz. Fastest Possible non-JIT.
no buffering: works fine for a while (10 secs), then stutters
double buffering: works fine for while, then screen tearing
triple: seems perfectly fine so far. Stays fine with directsound, sound buffer=2. Tried Portaudio Async4All, but starts stuttering as soon as Portaudio is enabled, regardless of sound buffer setting.

In 60 Hz, I got erratic "flickering" in all buffering modes (rate about 2 Hz). With flickering I mean that for example in slamtilt, an old frame flickers together with the new frame. If only the ball is moving, it looks like it has a ghost ball behind it that flashes every once in a while.

PS: once it starts stuttering or tearing or flickering it doesn't really stop until I go to options, change d3d filter or priority or sth, and click ok, then it is usually good for a little bit. It is rather erratic though.

PPS: In JIT mode the game slamtilt crashed on the intro screen.

[Toni Wilen]

Does it work smoothly if you disable sound completely? (Disable it before starting emulation). What does SND% show? Does it flicker yellow or blue?

Can anyone else (than me and Dr Venon) make this work? It works more than perfectly here, soooooo smooooth whatever the mode (CE/fastest possible/JIT), even in windowed mode.

[rsn8887]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Does it work smoothly if you disable sound completely? (Disable it before starting emulation). What does SND% show? Does it flicker yellow or blue?

Can anyone else (than me and Dr Venon) make this work? It works more than perfectly here, soooooo smooooth whatever the mode (CE/fastest possible/JIT), even in windowed mode.

Yes it works perfectly in all buffering modes, if I disable sound completely. With sound on, it only works stutter free in triple buffered mode. The snd% is around +12 (or -12) hard to tell, it flickers, in all modes. It is not blue or yellow.

(ignore this it is untrue:
It seems to be related to how much is going on in the game. I tested hyperdrive instead of slamtilt, and it looks like it works smooth without stutters even in "no buffering" mode.
)

Damn, I was still in triple buffering when I tested with hyperdrive. It does stutter when sound is on, unless I go to triple buffering after all.

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by rsn8887

Yes it works perfectly in all buffering modes, if I disable sound completely. With sound on, it only works stutter free in triple buffered mode. The snd% is around +12 (or -12) hard to tell, it flickers, in all modes. It is not blue or yellow.

Strange. No colored flashing = no buffer under or overflow but it still seems to cause similar problems.. Could you attach your config file? Perhaps you have some setting enabled that is not handled correctly.

Any change if you try different active priority settings?

[rsn8887]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Strange. No colored flashing = no buffer under or overflow but it still seems to cause similar problems.. Could you attach your config file? Perhaps you have some setting enabled that is not handled correctly.

Any change if you try different active priority settings?

There's no change when I try different priorities. I am attaching the config.

I think it is weird that it really works perfectly fine in triple buffered mode (as long as I use Directsound and not portaudio), just not in no buffered and double buffered.

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by rsn8887

There's no change when I try different priorities. I am attaching the config.

I think it is weird that it really works perfectly fine in triple buffered mode (as long as I use Directsound and not portaudio), just not in no buffered and double buffered.

Triple buffering is the only buffering mode that can work without slowdowns if page flipping is not immediate, perhaps you have forced vblank wait set in display driver control panel utility?

[rsn8887]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Triple buffering is the only buffering mode that can work without slowdowns if page flipping is not immediate, perhaps you have forced vblank wait set in display driver control panel utility?

My nvidia control panel (I have a Geforce 9500 GT) is at default settings, using latest driver version. The default for "Vertical Sync" is "Use the 3D application Setting," I just tried to force it to off, but same behaviour in WinUAE.

[Toni Wilen]

I tried WHDLoad SlamtiltAGA, perfect smooth scrolling. (with or without JIT)

Could you try Vision Megademo IV? It is my favorite vsync test program because it has lots of parts with big scrollers (For some reason I need to have JIT enabled when starting it or it crashes.. after it has started JIT can be disabled)

winuae.zip also updated again, some sound adjusment tweaks (must use DirectSound)