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View Poll Results: Why did the CD32 fail?
It was too late for Commodore and/or the Amiga 68 35.23%
No cd-rom promptly available for A1200 7 3.63%
No SX-1/SX-32 type expansion promptly available 1 0.52%
Low quality "exclusive" software 41 21.24%
Low quantity software 12 6.22%
Poor Commodore marketing 37 19.17%
It was a success. Stupid poll. 6 3.11%
Microsoft conspiracy 6 3.11%
Low quality bundled joypad 0 0%
No room in existing console market 6 3.11%
Bad press reviews 0 0%
No Full Motion Video support/availability 0 0%
Because people thought it was "another CDTV" 6 3.11%
Bad looks 3 1.55%
Voters: 193. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 04 August 2019, 19:21   #141
Mikerochip
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I don't know if anyone is interested in reading, but, I've added an article on the CD32 from Edge issue 8, May 1994.

It's 9 pages in total:

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Old 04 August 2019, 19:39   #142
DamienD
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Thanks Mikerochip.

Have only read 3 pages so far, but this paragraph mentions what has been brought up numerous times in the thread:



Unfortunately for the CD32, both of the above not occurring equals a massive fail.
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Old 05 August 2019, 02:03   #143
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Has there ever been a consolized computer that was successful?
It just can't work. The whole dynamic of it is wrong. You only ever get shovelware that costs more money.
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Old 05 August 2019, 10:01   #144
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Has there ever been a consolized computer that was successful?
It just can't work. The whole dynamic of it is wrong. You only ever get shovelware that costs more money.
I bet if you looked into this in greater detail the CD32 might actually be the most successful computer to console conversion.

The only other ones I can think of are the C64 thing and the Atari XE both of which didn't do that good either. the C64 console is especially funny since its literally just a C64 motherboard in a console housing. Even has the keyboard header in there.
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Old 05 August 2019, 12:46   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DamienD View Post
Thanks Mikerochip.

Have only read 3 pages so far, but this paragraph mentions what has been brought up numerous times in the thread:



Unfortunately for the CD32, both of the above not occurring equals a massive fail.
This.

Marketing is everything.
I agree that CD32 didn't had the specs needed at the time, but even with this specs, it could have been huge success.

Imagine that with CD32 you get these games for free:
- Racing game aka Wipeout (no need for lots of polygons and colors, no need for ugly early 3D textures, but nice design, perfect gameplay and speed feel)
- One 2D platform, something like Earthworm Jim, Rayman, or even Metal Slug.
- 3D fighting game like Tekken, Or maybe some sport 3D game like Tennis.
- Encyclopedia, for example, about dinosaurs, with lots of cool video sequences.

Now, in this hypothetic reality, Commodore would close cooperate with teams that would create above games, and one of the terms of agreement would be: After the CD32 is out, all of the source code for above games is free + complete technical documentation about CD32.

Add to this, a cheaper version of CD drive, with Akiko chip, for A1200, that would be released the same day as CD32, so they cover majority of users.

I know i repeat myself, but some members is doing much more often (claiming how crappy A1200 was)
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Old 05 August 2019, 15:01   #146
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One thing I have been wondering is if there is any way to calculate the potential maximum polygon per second of the AGA chipset in its standard form on a standard A1200 or CD32. No fast ram, no accelerators, just as it came out of the box?
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Old 05 August 2019, 16:59   #147
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CD32 today would be like Microsoft releasing the "Xbox One S All-Digital Edition" as a successor to the Xbox ONE without announcing a new next gen console.
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Old 05 August 2019, 17:35   #148
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For the record Hewitt, have you, ever, bought a non pirated Amiga game ?
More to the point, who didn't pirate a game? It was utterly rampant, and thank god it was or I would never have played anything like the amount of games I did.
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Old 05 August 2019, 19:38   #149
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The only other ones I can think of are the C64 thing and the Atari XE both of which didn't do that good either.
The Amstrad GX4000 too.

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Originally Posted by rare_j View Post
Has there ever been a consolized computer that was successful?
Sort of. The Xbox was more or less a consolised PC.
(Not really, but, also, more or less)

It had a Celeron, ran a cut down windows 2000 with DirectX (which is where it got it's name. It was the 'DirectX Box').
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Old 05 August 2019, 21:07   #150
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Its easy to say CD32 could have done well if it had really good software. However, the reality is that a lot of companies had a wait and see approach back then because console releases were not like these days, there were lots of various platforms out there and you couldnt really know where it would go.. Commodore would have needed to do *much much more* to get developers on board for some really decent launch titles but then again, unless you were a fan of railshooters with prerendered backgrounds, the CD32 wasn't really capable of anything revolutionary beyond what SNES and Megadrive were already capable of (more or less). Its not like the imagination of the devs was the only limit like it is nowadays. The CD32 was not capable of playing games that were becoming a trend at that moment in time. Bad timing..

And the more you think about it the more it becomes clear Commodore really did not have plans to do it anything hardware-wise beyond the 1200 +CD.. The cheapes way to produce a console was to reuse parts they already had ((including the exact same CPU as the 1200 used).. Heck, check your CD32 PSU, it probably says C65.. yes, the PSU was reused from the never released C65.)

If CD32 could have had a chance in hell when it was released Commodore would have been required to do so much more with devs than they ever did before, and if they didnt have money to do better hardware, they probably couldn't afford to do any costly deals with software devs either.
In my opinion, it would actually have been fairly cheap to gamble with better hardware and hope that devs can be bothered to do ports of games that were becoming popular at the time and needed more CPU power.. They clearly didnt have the required deals with the software devs...
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Old 05 August 2019, 23:06   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen M View Post
One thing I have been wondering is if there is any way to calculate the potential maximum polygon per second of the AGA chipset in its standard form on a standard A1200 or CD32. No fast ram, no accelerators, just as it came out of the box?
This is actually fairly tricky as it depends not only on the code that calculates the 3D world (which can be done in many ways, each better or worse in some ways) but also on the size of the polygons drawn.

Generally though, the A1200/CD32 should be anywhere from 2-4x the speed of the A500 for 3D (assuming the same resolution and number of colours is used), depending on what is limiting you. If the game is limited mostly by fillrate it'll likely be nearer the lower limit. If the game is limited mostly by calculating the 3D world it's going to closer to the upper limit.

Which, all things being equal, should mean a game like no second prize but with more colours or more polygons should be doable at the same speed. That said, that game is an outlier in the Amiga 3D world.

For real world examples, I think Guardian is probably the best example - though I don't know how well that's been done (could be very good code with little room for optimisation, could be poor code with lots of room).

Quote:
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Its easy to say CD32 could have done well if it had really good software.
...
If CD32 could have had a chance in hell when it was released Commodore would have been required to do so much more with devs than they ever did before, and if they didnt have money to do better hardware, they probably couldn't afford to do any costly deals with software devs either.
I mostly agree (with pretty much your entire post, I removed some of it to save some space). For the CD32 to have succeeded it would've needed Commodore to act like a console producer: create or finance high quality software and publish it themselves. They didn't and as such it didn't stand a chance.

As for the hardware, it could definitely do things that neither console could. But I'm not convinced any of those things were what was needed to succeed as a console.
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Old 06 August 2019, 09:44   #152
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The Amstrad GX4000 too.
Sort of but the GX has upgraded hardware from the computer series. Top Hat Gaming on youtube did a video on it a while back with a guest on speaking who really knew his stuff about the GX. Surprised me actually just how much more powerful it was than the computer it was based on.
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Old 06 August 2019, 10:16   #153
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Sort of but the GX has upgraded hardware from the computer series. Top Hat Gaming on youtube did a video on it a while back with a guest on speaking who really knew his stuff about the GX. Surprised me actually just how much more powerful it was than the computer it was based on.
Its based on the CPC Plus computers, it doesn’t have any additional hardware than those, but unlike the C64 GS which was based on 8 year old 8-bit hardware at least the GX4000 was based on same year (1990) newer 8-bit tech, the plus computers also have cartridge ports to play the same games as the GX4000.
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Old 06 August 2019, 10:49   #154
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Originally Posted by Mikerochip View Post
Sort of. The Xbox was more or less a consolised PC.
(Not really, but, also, more or less)

It had a Celeron, ran a cut down windows 2000 with DirectX (which is where it got it's name. It was the 'DirectX Box').
Exactly, the Xbox was a legacy-free PC. It happily ran x86 Linux and supported keyboard and mouse with a little bit of modding.

But the xbox had brilliant original games and the backing of a hugely wealthy corporation. The CD³² had old games reissued from other Amigas and the backing of a failing company.
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Old 06 August 2019, 14:18   #155
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Can I change my poll vote? I jokingly voted that the CD32 was a success and that the poll was stupid, but I've changed my mind.
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Old 06 August 2019, 16:22   #156
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Can I change my poll vote? I jokingly voted that the CD32 was a success and that the poll was stupid, but I've changed my mind.
I guess it can edit the poll to remove 1 vote off "It was a success. Stupid poll."

...question is, what do you now want to vote for so I can add 1?
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Old 06 August 2019, 18:24   #157
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I guess it can edit the poll to remove 1 vote off "It was a success. Stupid poll."

...question is, what do you now want to vote for so I can add 1?
It was too late for Commodore and/or the Amiga

However, my account will show what I initially voted for in italics. Nothing can be done to fix that?
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Old 06 August 2019, 20:35   #158
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Nothing.
The shame will be forever on you.
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Old 06 August 2019, 21:13   #159
DamienD
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It was too late for Commodore and/or the Amiga
Now changed

Quote:
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However, my account will show what I initially voted for in italics. Nothing can be done to fix that?
Hmmm, I voted and it doesn't show my choice in italics...

Anyway, if it does for you then there's nothing I can do about it.
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Old 06 August 2019, 23:39   #160
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Thanks for trying, anyway.
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