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Old 13 July 2019, 17:26   #401
Retro1234
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what year is this PC and price £ ?

Seems to be a Pentium Pro 200MHz MMX (686) which was first manufactured in 1995. (going by the 512k cache and CPU speed).

The price in french francs translates to about £5500 using today's exchange rate.

Probably around 1996 or so? So would likely come in at about 6 francs to the pound so around £1100... But the exchange rate in the 90s fluctuated wildly.
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I think that price would have been about 600 £ or 2100 DM in 1996. Francs used to have a rate of 10 Francs = 3 DM and 1£ was about 3.30 DM around that time.

Oh, and the processor wasn't an Intel at all but a 6x86 by Cyrix, I think, which was a Pentium MMx-class CPU, not a (much, much more expensive) Pentium Pro.




So Commodore themselves could produce a PC for £1000 CD-Rom 16mb and 1.6Gb HD, Monitor, Speakers in 95, now how much for an Amiga same spec?

Last edited by Retro1234; 13 July 2019 at 17:31.
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Old 13 July 2019, 17:32   #402
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Commodore was bankrupt for more than a year. That is just a reuse of the brand after Commodores bankruptcy.
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Old 13 July 2019, 17:33   #403
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By who Escom or Gateway?
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Old 13 July 2019, 17:35   #404
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Really, I've paid in 05/1996 for a Blizzard 1230/50 IV with FPU 508,- DM in Germany. About 150,- DM difference. I'm sure I've checked different dealers back in the days.
I do apologise, this was from memory and I should've specified I didn't mean a version including the FPU (as this was mostly not required for games & demos). Nevertheless, the conversion rate I used was clearly still off even in that case as 1 GBP was closer to 2 DM if I remeber right. I intended to use a 2 to 1 rate, don't know how I messed that up, sorry

To clear things up, I've attached part of a screenshot from the june 1996 issue of Amiga Format to show I was roughly correct, a 1230 MK IV cost 180 pounds without FPU/RAM, and 280 GBP with 4MB of RAM (I can't find a 2MB version this quickly, but IIRC that would've been about 250GPB total).

Regardless of my error, I'm still 100% sure you could not get a Pentium 90 PC for that price.
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Old 13 July 2019, 18:45   #405
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So Commodore themselves could produce a PC for £1000 CD-Rom 16mb and 1.6Gb HD, Monitor, Speakers in 95, now how much for an Amiga same spec?
It has to be 1997 and not 1995, because the Cyrix 6x86MX that this machine uses was launched in 1997*.

Just to be clear: by 1997, both the A1200 and A4000 were really out of date and effectively no development had been done on Amiga hardware for close to five years. Buying a new one that late was not a good idea and I wouldn't have done so myself.

Anyway, just for fun I checked Amiga Format for January 1997 to find some prices for buying and upgrading an A1200 to that level. As it turns out, about 1050 pounds got you an A1200, a 68040/25 accelerator, 16 MB of RAM, 1.3GB of harddisk and an external CD-ROM drive with squirrel adapter (see the screenshot as well). It would probably have been somewhat cheaper to tower the A1200 first and add IDE-FIX as both the CD-ROM drive and the HDD would then simply be standard PC parts. Or forgo the 68040, use a slower CD-ROM drive and add a simple memory board and it'd be cheaper as well.

And yes, that is very expensive and doesn't perform anywhere near as well as the 1997 PC. But what do you expect when you're upgrading a computer that out of date
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By who Escom or Gateway?
At that time, I think it was Escom. Though not for much longer as they went bust in the same year.

*) The Cyrix 6x86 from 1996 did not support MMX. However, the 6x86MX did and was released in 1997: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...n-jedi,26.html.

P.S. Apologies for the double post, but I don't know how to merge posts with attachments
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Old 13 July 2019, 18:50   #406
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Iam a newbie to all blizzard vipercard..didnt you have also own a amiga 4000 to have fun
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Old 13 July 2019, 19:02   #407
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Iam a newbie to all blizzard vipercard..didnt you have also own a amiga 4000 to have fun
Nah, an A1200 could be upgraded quite a bit.

Don't get me wrong, the A4000 was a much nicer machine in many ways, but if you didn't want to add extra cards to the machine you didn't really need it. Doesn't stop me from wanting to get one, though. Still out of my price range, sadly
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Old 13 July 2019, 19:28   #408
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Last game to buy to mine cd32 was Lotus 3.. and then i went to Ps1 omg the graphics Ridge racer !! and Wipeout with the Psygnosis logo i was sooooo sold
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Old 13 July 2019, 19:36   #409
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I think that price would have been about 600 £ or 2100 DM in 1996. Francs used to have a rate of 10 Francs = 3 DM and 1£ was about 3.30 DM around that time.

Oh, and the processor wasn't an Intel at all but a 6x86 by Cyrix, I think, which was a Pentium MMx-class CPU, not a (much, much more expensive) Pentium Pro.
A Cyrix with MMX? I had no idea they existed
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Old 13 July 2019, 20:05   #410
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GBP was closer to 2 DM if I remeber right.
Sorry, you don't remember right. I spent 97/98 in England and the conversion rate was 1 £ = 3.2 .. 3.35 DM during that time which seemed very good as it had been 4 DM for a long time.

Last edited by grond; 13 July 2019 at 20:18.
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Old 13 July 2019, 20:16   #411
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[...] Oh, and the processor wasn't an Intel at all but a 6x86 by Cyrix, [...]
For having used some of them, the most obvious was the price difference with Intel CPUs. In terms of usage, for the time and the used application (office use), there was no difference.
Some comparison here
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Old 13 July 2019, 20:21   #412
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To clear things up, I've attached part of a screenshot from the june 1996 issue of Amiga Format to show I was roughly correct, a 1230 MK IV cost 180 pounds without FPU/RAM, and 280 GBP with 4MB of RAM (I can't find a 2MB version this quickly, but IIRC that would've been about 250GPB total).
Don't forget that a Blizzard 1230 IV is the top end of 030 accelerators. You could get an entry-level 030 card for £120-130, and a Viper 030/28 with 8MB of fast RAM for £180.

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Regardless of my error, I'm still 100% sure you could not get a Pentium 90 PC for that price.
Indeed. Feels more like trolling to me...
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Old 13 July 2019, 21:00   #413
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What happend to Pos ??
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Old 13 July 2019, 21:04   #414
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What happend to Pos ??
I fear the answer to that will continue to elude us all.
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Old 13 July 2019, 21:05   #415
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leak download :P ?
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Old 13 July 2019, 21:23   #416
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Don't forget that a Blizzard 1230 IV is the top end of 030 accelerators. You could get an entry-level 030 card for £120-130, and a Viper 030/28 with 8MB of fast RAM for £180.
By 1997 you could get a Blizzard 1230-IV for £129.95, and by 1998 it had dropped to £95.95. RAM was much cheaper by then too.

So while PCs were getting cheaper, so was Amiga hardware. If you had an A1200 then it was an excellent time to upgrade. And no reason to discard it when only a few years old.

The 1998 advert below is interesting because it shows that even A500 and A600 users could upgrade their Amigas for not much money. Compare that to 386 owners whose only real choice was to buy a whole new machine.

20 years later, where are those 386s? Most went to the tip. But A1200s are now selling on eBay for £450 or more, and Blizzard 1230-IVs for £200+. The A1200 has held its value much better than a typical PC of the same vintage.
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Old 13 July 2019, 21:23   #417
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Sorry, you don't remember right. I spent 97/98 in England and the conversion rate was 1 £ = 3.2 .. 3.35 DM during that time which seemed very good as it had been 4 DM for a long time.
So, I decided to Google it. Partly because I started to really doubt my memory there and partly because the date you mentioned (1997/1998) was about a year after the date I was talking about in that post (1996).

As it turns out, the rate fluctuated throughout 1996 - trending up. Starting in January at 1 £ = 2,21DM and ending in December at 1 £ = 2,62DM. (averaging 2,42)

I'd call that both of us being equally right and wrong - we're both off by about the same amount .

Source: https://freecurrencyrates.com/en/exc...P-DEM/1996/cbr

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20 years later, where are those 386s? Most went to the tip. But A1200s are now selling on eBay for £450 or more, and Blizzard 1230-IVs for £200+. The A1200 has held its value much better than a typical PC of the same vintage.
In all fairness, I'm pretty sure most Amiga's went to the tip as well.

As for e-bay, I did a quick search and you can get complete 386 systems for anywhere between €200 and €400. Similarly, you can get A1200's for around €350. To me, the somewhat lower price for the 386 seems understandable as so many more of them were made. And even then there are crazy people asking for way too much money https://www.ebay.nl/itm/IBM-PC-AT-51...wAAOSw94ddFYW9

Seems very close to the norm for retro computing

Last edited by roondar; 13 July 2019 at 21:41.
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Old 13 July 2019, 22:19   #418
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it doesent matter psx was the thing to get even the demo disc is epic
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Old 13 July 2019, 22:25   #419
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it doesent matter psx was the thing to get even the demo disc is epic
I had a lot more fun with my A1200 in 1992 than I did with my PSX in 1992. Wonder why
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Old 13 July 2019, 22:43   #420
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In all fairness, I'm pretty sure most Amiga's went to the tip as well.
Perhaps, but the number produced was much lower than PCs, so I suspect a greater proportion have survived.

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then there are crazy people asking for way too much money https://www.ebay.nl/itm/IBM-PC-AT-51...wAAOSw94ddFYW9
This is a recent trend, and it's interesting because real IBM PCs and XTs go for much more than clones. I suspect many are going to 'collectors' who want to own a bit of history. Personally I wouldn't touch one at any price (having to work with crappy IBM PCs and XTs is a memory I don't I don't want to bring back.)

What's the attraction of an XT or AT, or even a 386 or 486? People are still throwing away Pentium systems that are much more capable and can run the same software. I can only guess that long-time PC owners are trying to relive their youth by pretending that more powerful PCs don't exist (this would explain that silly 486 benchmarking thread).

The Amiga market is quite different. In general we are (sensibly) willing to pay more for later more advanced models, and we are not shy about upgrading our machines beyond what was possible in 1992. Our Amigas are not museum pieces, and we don't keep them just to make pointless benchmark comparisons.
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