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Old 12 June 2018, 21:23   #41
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hexaae View Post


after launching Delitracker 2 and listening to some mods, running a few programs, Scout (monitoring tool on Aminet), then running Lionheart and quitting back to WB…
Maybe it's just the Realtek HD (ALC668) + crappy audio drivers
I meant some 3rd party software that shows also temperatures etc.. Check if the manufacturer of the laptop has similar utilities (gaming laptops usually have).

Try also setting Windows power saving to max power temporarily.

Can you notice the lag without sound? If yes, just disable sound emulation to confirm if it has anything to do with sound.

Do you have any USB sound devices? (for example USB headphones) or monitor/TV with built-in audio via HDMI? Any difference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hexaae View Post
Two questions about JIT Cache dir/indirect:
1) why sometimes I find it switched off after using WB/playing games/playing WHDLoad games? What's trigging it in? I use scripts like "uae-configuration cachesize 0..." but they shouldn't change direct/indirect mode AFAICU...
2) is there a way using uae-configuration wb tool to set direct/indirect mode, through Amiga shell?
It should stay but some options may force it off. Which is your exact uae-configuration line? Does it get switched off if you manually run same command? Check also log.

These config entries need to set:

comp_trustbyte=direct
comp_trustword=direct
comp_trustlong=direct
comp_trustnaddr=direct

(It looks like it is good idea to add single option that enables/disables it..)
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Old 13 June 2018, 20:52   #42
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There is no HW issue or overheating, fortunately … Changing power saving settings didn't improve performance.

The small lag (tested with disabled audio, quit, and re-run WUAE) is visible also in WB usage with >3.4.0 but the gfx lag opening drawers etc. is marginal (acceptable delay with latest 4.0b13). Notice also it's much slower at the beginning but after 20 secs gets decent (JIT buffering issues flushing and refilling constantly????), even if <=3.3.0 was noticeably snappier!
So, let's ignore the small gfx lag for the moment...

The "huge" issue for me is with audio load. I can't find a balance in the audio emu to prevent crackles all the time and have decent feedback speed from WB, and feel no lag between video-audio while playing AGA/ECS games :-\
With 2.5.1 (I was fine with that) up to 3.3.0 was MUCH more balanced for my HW and I could emulate WB desktop ambient (with emulated P96 on Z3)+ games very well. I had only very rare small crackles but everything was fast and perfect in terms of emu speed and fidelity.

At this point I have 2 hypothesis:
1) NVIDIA drivers issues (since Win10 1709+...). Will try with next driver installation TO SKIP Geforce Experience capture tool installation, to test WinUAE excluding possible overlay issues (again as we discussed once)...
2) crappy ALC668+drivers (I tried all Realtek drivers available…) and its own faults… Will also export my WinUAE ENV for testing on other PCs in the next days.

I've also noticed WinUAE uses max 2 cores (or at least it seems so if I run performance monitoring tools like HWiNFO or Windows Task Manager) all the time… Is there something you could do in compiling phase from this point of view?

Last edited by hexaae; 13 June 2018 at 22:40.
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Old 14 June 2018, 09:45   #43
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This is weird: I've now forced WinUAE in Win7 compatibility mode with Microsoft Application Compatibility Toolkit:



and is finally faaaast as expected, even WinUAE4.0.0betas!


Windows 10 x64 1803 (17134.112), Nvidia drivers 398.11 WHQL (1920x1080 75Hz G-Sync display), GeForce Experience 3.7.0.81
Gaming laptop ASUS G751JY
Chipset: Intel HM87 Lynx Point, CPU: i7-4860HQ, RAM: 24GB DDR3L 2133MHz, Gfx card: GTX 980M (GM204M, 10DE-1617/1043-22DA Rev A1, vBIOS v84.04.48.00.39), 4GB GDDR5 (Micron)], Screen: LG Philips LP173WF4-SPD1 (LGD046C) 17" with G-Sync, desktop res: 1080p 75Hz, HD: SSD 2TB 540MB/s, Audio:Realtek HD (ALC668), OS: Windows 10 x64, Controllers: Competition Pro USB arcade joystick SpeedLink SL-6603-SPORTS-EU, XBox One Bluetooth controller, Microsoft PN7-00004 Bluetooth mouse


P.S.
Also reducing JIT to 4096 seems to avoid "flush/refill" random lags and makes emulation smoother on my hardware.

Last edited by hexaae; 14 June 2018 at 11:09.
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Old 14 June 2018, 12:29   #44
Toni Wilen
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Quite strange but at least it solves the problem

WinUAE uses very few Windows 8+ features, mainly D3D11 mode and lagless vsync uses Windows 8+ features if available (better page flipping mode etc..)
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Old 15 June 2018, 09:58   #45
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AFAICS everything works fine including DX11 mode, with those shims activated. Have no idea what Windows thinks WinUAE is and why it degrades performance so much without that (even with OS powersaving laptop profile set to maximum performance)
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Old 15 June 2018, 15:13   #46
Toni Wilen
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I found something related, new gaming laptop includes some "Nahimic" sound control panel. Which for some unknown reasons hooks to all programs that use D3D11. And not that surprisingly, it leaks D3D11 objects causing WinUAE to fail when it closes and re-opens D3D11 modes.. (D3D11 object creating fails because it already exists)

2 hours of debugging time wasted.. D3D11 ReportLiveDeviceObjects reported leaked texture, buffers etc...

Uninstalled it -> leak is gone.

Perhaps you also have some "gaming" graphics overlay etc that does stupid things?

EDIT: You can check injected dlls with sysinternal process explorer, select executable from process list, then press CTRL+D. Look for non-microsoft dlls.

Last edited by Toni Wilen; 15 June 2018 at 15:22.
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Old 15 June 2018, 19:11   #47
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Audio drivers overlays that hook into DX11????
Yeah, I know that bloatware for 3D stero sound enhancements and more…. I have Waves Maxx Audio (auto-installed and distributed by Realtek itself in the official driver packages), but I can't uninstall it or audio will sound like crappy 200€ laptop speakers!



EDIT: probably Nvidia Geforce Experience overlay does the same...

Last edited by hexaae; 15 June 2018 at 19:39.
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Old 16 June 2018, 08:48   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
I found something related, new gaming laptop includes some "Nahimic" sound control panel. Which for some unknown reasons hooks to all programs that use D3D11. And not that surprisingly, it leaks D3D11 objects causing WinUAE to fail when it closes and re-opens D3D11 modes.. (D3D11 object creating fails because it already exists)
I was wrong: even the compatibility fixes didn't last that long and all of a sudden (after some routine Windows reboots) WB started to lag again (easy to check opening 50+ folders at once of WHDLoad games with big color icons while playing a clean mod with Delitracker2!

).

I think you're right and something is stealing video frames… even in WB mode (Z3 Picasso emu)?
But… this morning I've changed RTG Board > Refresh rate: Default -> Chipset and finally everything feels always in sync now! Does it make sense?

Last edited by hexaae; 16 June 2018 at 09:13.
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Old 16 June 2018, 09:22   #49
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It selects refresh rate of RTG mode. Chipset = follow chipset refresh rate (50hz/60hz), Default = same as current fullscreen/desktop refresh rate. Which may not be that good idea now that high refresh rate monitors are getting common. Fortunately "chipset" is the default option.

It can also make a difference if GPU forces vsync (=Forced in control panel. Don't do it.).

Enable OSD and check reported refresh rate.
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Old 16 June 2018, 13:25   #50
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Then I'm the worst case: 75Hz 1920x1080 and G-Sync
G-Sync is of great help for me though: 50Hz pal games look silky smooth!
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Old 17 June 2018, 12:37   #51
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Still can't find a 100% reliable solution
That's how bad it looks/sounds, randomly… Who's stealing frames desyncing everything with sound crackles and random lags? GeForce Experience overlay (even when not in use), or Maxx Audio? Sigh…

[ Show youtube player ]

Why this happens only with WinUAE DX11 BTW? CPU usage 10-15%, low temps and of course it's not a underpower issue but something related to video refresh… Is G-Sync incompatible?

Last edited by hexaae; 20 June 2018 at 06:58.
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Old 21 June 2018, 12:55   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Enable OSD and check reported refresh rate.
Done some testing…
Noticed for example in Cannon Fodder WHDLoad, loaded with these tooltypes in the icon:

SLAVE=CannonFodder.Slave
QUITKEY=$59
DATA=data-IT
PRELOAD
PreloadSize=2284381
ExecuteStartup=
ExecutePostDisk=uae-configuration cachesize 0 cycle_exact true cpu_cycle_exact true immediate_blits false


that the OSD reports: -27÷-35 46÷52% 50÷49fps etc...
and sometimes -27 turns to yellow (?)
I've also noticed that switching Immediate blits to TRUE increases the OSD to: -02÷+04 46÷52% 50÷49fps

Used cfg attached.
Attached Files
File Type: uae Beta 4.0.0.uae keyboard only.uae (18.5 KB, 10 views)
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Old 24 June 2018, 00:02   #53
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@Toni
Is there a way to force Display > Screen: No buffering like in old WinUAE versions? Have to test if this solves issues with G-Sync...
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Old 24 June 2018, 09:00   #54
Toni Wilen
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No because it did nothing except in low latency vsync mode and lagless vsync does the same without any need for extra options.

btw, you really need to "minimize" (less unknown variables) your configs and keep testing it longer time. For example: get rid of RTG first if it makes no difference. Try something crazy like use max sound buffer: if it makes no difference (except adds huge sound lag) = it has nothing to do with sound (yet another unknown variable gone) and so on.
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Old 24 June 2018, 10:21   #55
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With G-Sync there is no need of video buffer theoretically or custom v-sync modes (they do not work BTW: WinUAE will revert to "Fullscreen: -" if I try lagless modes)

Of course I tested sound buffer: longer than 6 (with big audio lag) will solve the crackles but can't play.
With 2.5.1 I could play at sound buffer 1-2 and no audio/video lags. Tried also to adjust "CPU Idle" but 2-3 notches from left it starts to lag like a basic A500.
With post-3.3.0 versions, it looks like chipset emulation has not enough time in the CPU/chipset load balancing despite any setting I try… or chipset emu is too demanding (???)

In all this, CPU usage is never above 12-15% (max 1-2 cores/8 used though...) even while playing Lionheart or WingCommander CD32, temps are low.
Faster audio (= less crackles) in my case is DSOUND. WASAPI introduces more crackles.

Last edited by hexaae; 24 June 2018 at 10:33.
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Old 24 June 2018, 10:42   #56
Toni Wilen
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There is no "gsync modes", application does not know nothing about g-sync (without using some nvidia dlls). I have no idea what you mean..

Ok, so does it work better if you also disable JIT. JIT can "steal" large chunks of CPU time from other parts of emulator and could cause starved sound buffer.

Usual way to debug these is to start from very basic config and then keep adding stuff until something happens. Try not be so random, there is nothing clear in your reports, version changes all the time, problem is first fixed and then suddenly it isn't and so on.. It is just mostly noise.

More CPU cores won't help. All accurate emulators have same problem. In theory CPU can be moved to separate thread but problem is that normally Amiga CPU does IO accesses all the time which would become slower. Only RAM accesses can happen really fast.
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Old 24 June 2018, 12:10   #57
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"v-sync modes" I said… I meant Lagless or Std VS modes under Display > Settings…

I usually disable JIT before launching a (WHDLoad) game so the audio crackles happen with JIT OFF too, yes.

I will do some more accurate testing and maybe provide a mini-boot env… but one thing is sure that with old chipset logic (and uae-configuration before launching games to adjust a few incompatibilities) video/audio sync emulation was better and lighter here…
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Old 24 June 2018, 12:51   #58
Toni Wilen
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"old" is meaningless.

Start with approximate CPU 68020 without cycle-exact, no AGA. (this is one of the "cheapest" hardware emulation option). Do not use any uae-configuration changes. Do all possible tests with this config. Does it also have same problem?
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Old 02 July 2018, 17:03   #59
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Elvira 2 WHDLoad.
Started with tooltypes:
Code:
…
ExecuteStartup=
ExecutePostDisk=uae-configuration cachesize 0 cpu_speed real cycle_exact true
…
At this point:

right after the intro (you can press ESC at the scrolling credits to skip them) you can hear very sluggish sound emulation with WinUAE >3.3.0, even using sound buffer 10 in any mode (WASAPI, DS, etc.), and even in native mode set to window mode. The only workaround is enabling JIT and sound emu will play without crackles and fast enough again.
This did not happen though with <=3.3.0 and also with "uae-configuration cachesize 0 cpu_speed real cycle_exact true" audio had no noticeable slowdown.

Why is this game so demanding, especially with recent WinUAE 4.x.x? (Windows CPU usage always 15%, so it's not a HW limitation)

Last edited by hexaae; 02 July 2018 at 17:41. Reason: corrected uae-configuration string
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Old 02 July 2018, 18:08   #60
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hexaae View Post
Why is this game so demanding, especially with recent WinUAE 4.x.x? (Windows CPU usage always 15%, so it's not a HW limitation)
Task manager CPU% is annoying because it gets smaller the more CPU cores there are. Impossible to see when core is at max or not..

Enable WinUAE CPU%, and check it. I think it goes over 100% which always causes sound glitches and has nothing to do with sound emulation.

EDIT: Better test is to compare it with using disk version in A500 ce mode. EDIT2: Hope there is difference because then there is some good starting point..

Last edited by Toni Wilen; 02 July 2018 at 18:41.
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