Why are platform games on the Amiga really mediocre? - Page 14

skateblind · 09 December 2009, 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dastardly

I have to agree with Adropac in that I also don't consider Gods, Flashback etc to be pure platformers. For me, a pure platformer (like Mario World) has it's emphasis on the mechanic of jumping skillfully between platforms. This mechanic gradually gets more and more difficult as the game progresses. In a game like Gods or Flashback, this is not what the emphasis of the game is based on. Of course there are 'platforms', but they are more about building an environment for you to explore. The jumping between platforms in Gods is no more difficult at the end of the game than it is at the beginning.

Genres aren't always black and white. There are grey areas.

Doesn't flashback have an automatic jump? I would suppose that makes it less of a platformer than a few have been saying. If flashback is a platformer, than I am a banana.

TCD · 09 December 2009, 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by skateblind

Doesn't flashback have an automatic jump?

No

Hungry Horace · 09 December 2009, 22:57

it's an action/adventure/platform/shooter hybrid

genres are for record shops, not for DJs.

Same applies with games.

DamienD · 09 December 2009, 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by skateblind

Doesn't flashback have an automatic jump?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

No

Well, it does to a certain degree... When running, if a platform is above you it will jump up and grab on.

Hungry Horace · 09 December 2009, 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

Well, it does to a certain degree... When running, if a platform is above you it will jump up and grab on.

you still have to hold fire for that to happen. maybe its a 'semi automatic' jump and grab

Tomb Raider is is a similar type of hybrid, so could also be put in the 'platformer + others' category

TCD · 09 December 2009, 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

Well, it does to a certain degree... When running, if a platform is above you it will jump up and grab on.

Okay, that one jump is automatic

The rest isn't though

john4p · 10 December 2009, 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Of course 'platformer' is a wide category, but (at least for me) Prince of Persia and Flashback are quite different. That Flashback copies the jump mechanism from Prince of Persia, doesn't make it almost the same game.

It's not just the jump mechanism, it's the whole character movement and how the "platforms" are always built from "step-sized parts"/plates (they are always exactly 1, 2, 3, 4, etc., steps long, never for example 1.35 steps).
The only difference in standard movement is in PoP you run by default and have to hold fire to walk (sneak) while in Flashback you walk by default and have to hold a button to run.
Flashback added the auto-jump to above ledges (when you don't hold left or right) for convenience and the auto-stop at the ends of platforms when running.

Still both games have a very different feel to them due to the different fight-mechanics and due to PoP being a lot harder (time-pressure + no room for error in many places).

TCD · 10 December 2009, 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by john4p

It's not just the jump mechanism, it's the whole character movement and how the "platforms" are always built from "step-sized parts"/plates (they are always exactly 1, 2, 3, 4, etc., steps long, never for example 1.35 steps).

All part of the 'jump' or 'platform' mechanism for me

john4p · 10 December 2009, 11:17

Ah, okay.

snarkhunter · 10 December 2009, 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDNI

Surprised that robocod has not been mentioned....

So am I.
Of course, it's always a matter of personal taste. But this game remains one of the very best "platformers" I've ever played. And I still play it now and then - within "WinUAE". And I still fail at the same stage, by the way!

I did buy a number of platformers at the time (such as "Brian The Lion", "Mr. Nutz" & "Superfrog"), but none ever felt as brilliant and well-designed as "JP2". To put it bluntly, none was as fun.

Adropac2 · 10 December 2009, 20:59

Yup

I recognize stuff that i think is better in other games but a lot of the time my choice of game is just down to because i like what i'm playing.It's mostly atmosphere though and that's why i like Amiga games the most - games are so lovely and warm on Amiga and they always look so damn crisp on a crt

Actually Flashback is a great example of just that and while it does clearly boast an insane level of polish from it's artwork, animation etc, and although the game is very solid, it's not because i think it's is the best at what it does(because it could have perhaps been even better), no it's because i feel utterly captivated by an entirely believable world and it's inhabitants.For that it demands your time

pce_gamer · 14 December 2009, 19:09

I agree with the original poster. While I haven't played a lot of Amiga platformers, I have seen quite a bit if play throughs (thank you Cubex55). Of course, I can't comment on the controls of the tons of playthroughs I've watched, I can comment on the rest of the aspects of the games. They all seem to have this common trait; really repetitive level designs with lots of tedious exploration just for minor item/score collection. And this seems to go on for a long time. The weapons tend to be either limited or just generic looking. Matter of fact, a lot of the EU platformers are very generic looking (like Japanese rejects). Sorry if this sound harsh, but that's what it comes off as. Not *every* game, but quite a lot. I remember the hype around Shadow of the Beast and bought a copy - what a let down. Sure, the graphics were nice and the gameplay was fine - but the game itself just felt... I dunno... *hollow* or soulless. I find a lot of EU platformers are like this, not just Amiga ones. (And for the EU/UK guys, don't feel bad - we US/NA guys REALLY suck as making games back then. 90% complete trash). Earthworm Jim is probably the best EU platformer and it was great (all EU developers). Now *that's* what platformers should have been on the Amiga and such. But that's the different. Shiny was a professional company, while I imagine a lot of Amiga games were done be a few amateurs and published by larger companies. I do remember EU companies started doing games on the PC in the 486/VGA days. Uhh god, Jazz Jackrabbit was suck a tedious/boring game after the first 5 minutes. Definitely felt like a run of the mill Amiga platformer.

I didn't grow up with the Amiga, so I don't have the nostalgia like a lot of you guys have. I grew up on NES/SNES/GENESIS. Hell, even the NES had better platformers than the Amiga. I agree, if the Amiga had been popular in Japan - there would have been a flood of great ports and originals for the system. The Japanese just had the nack for it. No denying.

Paul_s · 14 December 2009, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by snarkhunter

So am I.
Of course, it's always a matter of personal taste. But this game remains one of the very best "platformers" I've ever played. And I still play it now and then - within "WinUAE". And I still fail at the same stage, by the way!

I did buy a number of platformers at the time (such as "Brian The Lion", "Mr. Nutz" & "Superfrog"), but none ever felt as brilliant and well-designed as "JP2". To put it bluntly, none was as fun.

Tearaway Thomas / Wiz n' Liz could kick Pond's ass for speed

PowerPie5000 · 14 December 2009, 19:42

I'm sorry but there is only one platform hero and he's not on the Amiga

This only applies to the Master System and Megadrive versions

TCD · 14 December 2009, 20:03

Turrican will put his gun in some nasty place of Sonic and Mario and ruin their days

@pce_gamer
Was (wrongly) given the same advice by Dan Locke : Play, not watch the games. At least you'll see that they played different and even if you don't like them, you'll have an idea what's the difference.

PowerPie5000 · 14 December 2009, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Turrican will put his gun in some nasty place of Sonic and Mario and ruin their days

Sonic would knock Turrican to the floor... turning him into a cute little animal at the same time

Turrican is great but it's more of a platform/shooter than a "pure" platform game

Retro-Nerd · 14 December 2009, 22:26

Sonic is a fast scrolling "something". Wait for the Babylonian Twins release and you get a "game" too.

TCD · 14 December 2009, 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerPie5000

Turrican is great but it's more of a platform/shooter than a "pure" platform game

Yeah, Turrican had balls

You could fecking shoot things (not like that wimpy 'fire flower' thingy)

Just saying you know

PowerPie5000 · 15 December 2009, 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Yeah, Turrican had balls

You could fecking shoot things (not like that wimpy 'fire flower' thingy)

Just saying you know

Fire flower thing? you must be thinking about Mario... i don't really like Mario

TCD · 15 December 2009, 01:05

Good, then we have a common enemy

We should join forces and...
Wait! I actually like all three

That sucks! We need to find someone else to bully around. Hmm, there was this Chupa Chups guy...

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09 December 2009, 22:57	#263
Hungry Horace Wipe-Out Enthusiast Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: . Age: 43 Posts: 2,538	it's an action/adventure/platform/shooter hybrid genres are for record shops, not for DJs. Same applies with games.

10 December 2009, 11:17	#269
john4p Competition Moderator Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 4,756	Ah, okay.

10 December 2009, 20:59	#271
Adropac2 Zone Friend Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Age: 51 Posts: 1,057	Yup I recognize stuff that i think is better in other games but a lot of the time my choice of game is just down to because i like what i'm playing.It's mostly atmosphere though and that's why i like Amiga games the most - games are so lovely and warm on Amiga and they always look so damn crisp on a crt Actually Flashback is a great example of just that and while it does clearly boast an insane level of polish from it's artwork, animation etc, and although the game is very solid, it's not because i think it's is the best at what it does(because it could have perhaps been even better), no it's because i feel utterly captivated by an entirely believable world and it's inhabitants.For that it demands your time

14 December 2009, 19:09	#272
pce_gamer Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: arizona Posts: 29	I agree with the original poster. While I haven't played a lot of Amiga platformers, I have seen quite a bit if play throughs (thank you Cubex55). Of course, I can't comment on the controls of the tons of playthroughs I've watched, I can comment on the rest of the aspects of the games. They all seem to have this common trait; really repetitive level designs with lots of tedious exploration just for minor item/score collection. And this seems to go on for a long time. The weapons tend to be either limited or just generic looking. Matter of fact, a lot of the EU platformers are very generic looking (like Japanese rejects). Sorry if this sound harsh, but that's what it comes off as. Not every game, but quite a lot. I remember the hype around Shadow of the Beast and bought a copy - what a let down. Sure, the graphics were nice and the gameplay was fine - but the game itself just felt... I dunno... hollow or soulless. I find a lot of EU platformers are like this, not just Amiga ones. (And for the EU/UK guys, don't feel bad - we US/NA guys REALLY suck as making games back then. 90% complete trash). Earthworm Jim is probably the best EU platformer and it was great (all EU developers). Now that's what platformers should have been on the Amiga and such. But that's the different. Shiny was a professional company, while I imagine a lot of Amiga games were done be a few amateurs and published by larger companies. I do remember EU companies started doing games on the PC in the 486/VGA days. Uhh god, Jazz Jackrabbit was suck a tedious/boring game after the first 5 minutes. Definitely felt like a run of the mill Amiga platformer. I didn't grow up with the Amiga, so I don't have the nostalgia like a lot of you guys have. I grew up on NES/SNES/GENESIS. Hell, even the NES had better platformers than the Amiga. I agree, if the Amiga had been popular in Japan - there would have been a flood of great ports and originals for the system. The Japanese just had the nack for it. No denying.

14 December 2009, 19:42	#274
PowerPie5000 Miggy Ate My Hamster! Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 1,566	I'm sorry but there is only one platform hero and he's not on the Amiga This only applies to the Master System and Megadrive versions

14 December 2009, 20:03	#275
TCD HOL/FTP busy bee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 46 Posts: 31,532	Turrican will put his gun in some nasty place of Sonic and Mario and ruin their days @pce_gamer Was (wrongly) given the same advice by Dan Locke : Play, not watch the games. At least you'll see that they played different and even if you don't like them, you'll have an idea what's the difference.

14 December 2009, 22:26	#277
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,438	Sonic is a fast scrolling "something". Wait for the Babylonian Twins release and you get a "game" too.

15 December 2009, 01:05	#280
TCD HOL/FTP busy bee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 46 Posts: 31,532	Good, then we have a common enemy We should join forces and... Wait! I actually like all three That sucks! We need to find someone else to bully around. Hmm, there was this Chupa Chups guy...

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