AmigaOS 3.2 and beyond

[Minuous]

Can we try to stay on topic? A "thin layer of AROS/Linux" that would not work on any existing Amiga due to needing a "hardware rewrite" involving FPGA is not only a bad idea but also nothing to do with AmigaOS 3.2. As torturedutopian said, better to start a separate thread about such things.

[Paulthetall]

Originally Posted by gulliver

Hi,

AmigaOS 3.2 has more than 50 new features, and these require more space. This resulted in a substancial increment on the amount of disks that 3.2 will require. And we have not finished yet!

While we currently still have a disk based installation, the most likely scenario is that 3.2 will be primarily offered in some other type of media, which most likely be cd-rom. Still nothing is set as a defintive matter in this regard.

If we are going to use cd-roms for physical distribution, there will be enough place left to put optional software like the one you mention. But that will need to be analyzed when the time comes.

BTW, I am currently working on BestWB 2.0 which is targetted exclusively at AmigaOS 3.2, and will bring new features too.

It would really be nice to have also a downloadable file for the ones not having a CDrom, so on the A600/A1200 this could be put on a SD/CF card whcih can be put in the PCMCIA port. This is how I put software fast from Mac to Amiga. But of course other (non CD) options of transfer is possible also to other Amiga's think of using a cable between Amiga and PC/Mac.

So a single installer file/folder would be something unmissable. Also if people want to use the software on virtual machines or emulators.
So yeah, distribution methods:
- Disk
- Cd-rom
- Downloadable file

[duga]

Originally Posted by Paulthetall

It would really be nice to have also a downloadable file for the ones not having a CDrom, so on the A600/A1200 this could be put on a SD/CF card whcih can be put in the PCMCIA port. This is how I put software fast from Mac to Amiga. But of course other (non CD) options of transfer is possible also to other Amiga's think of using a cable between Amiga and PC/Mac.

So a single installer file/folder would be something unmissable. Also if people want to use the software on virtual machines or emulators.
So yeah, distribution methods:
- Disk
- Cd-rom
- Downloadable file

Sounds pretty much like what I suggested in April in https://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p...6&postcount=96

Compact Flash
CD-ROM
Downloadable file for transfer via network or serial cable.

(No floppies this time)

[amigo1]

In all honesty, during these COVID-times, I hope you are all doing well in your programming caves mighty OS developers.

Would it be a good idea to match the keyboard-shortcuts for Workbench and ASL-Requesters to the ones of AmigaOS 4? (Even if there are a few which would be sensible to be changed here too)

Is a revision of the style-guide envisioned for a potential successor of AmigaOS 3.2?

The inconsitency of the keyboards shortcuts in Workbench and many Tools|Apps (nothing the OS can do about this, but the style guide might) always was a bit of a downer. I know one can learn different shortcuts for different Apps doing a similar "task", but there are better ways to train memory skills and memory elasticity..

[gulliver]

@amigo1

I understand the inconsistency you mention regarding keybard shortcuts. The keyword here is "legacy". There is not much we can do regarding keyboard shortcuts, as we need to live with the desicions that were taken well before we came into play.

We only have ideas each of us have accumulated for 3.3, nothing more. We haven't started to discuss them yet. So maybe a revision of the style-guide could very well be one of them.

[Minuous]

@amigao1:

Rest assured that consistency and compatibility with OS3.9 and OS4 wherever feasible are important priorities for us. And I'm sure Gulliver and others could tell you how much I am always stressing the importance of the style guide ;-)

[alpine9000]

Originally Posted by Minuous

@amigao1:

Rest assured that consistency and compatibility with OS3.9 and OS4 wherever feasible are important priorities for us. And I'm sure Gulliver and others could tell you how much I am always stressing the importance of the style guide ;-)

But compatibility with OS3.1 is the highest priority right ?

[Minuous]

Yes, of course anything that worked on OS3.1, or any other pre-OS4 version of the OS, will continue to work unless it was a total hack in the first place. We are not like Apple where every new OS release breaks half the apps :-D

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by asymetrix

@torturedutopian

Im suggesting a proper rewrite. Hardware rewrite + software rewrite.

We are hindered by OS design, cpu, memory, hardware.

Everyone loves 68k assembler - so the cpu choice has to be same.
People like chipset graphics in asm, so keep the chipset - but in FPGA.

A simple API for games that programmers can use, while hiding the hardware details for compatibility.

A thin layer of AROS/Linux with peoples choice of CORE OS + GUI .(classic or NG) or NEW mobile friendly UI.
But you need the power in the cpu to do this.
If the system is Amiga like, it should be fine.

Yeah, do it. Work for a few years on it and then see how many people will follow you with this.

[Daedalus]

I'm not sure if I missed any previous mention of it, but is there any chance that the dragging windows off-screen feature could have a screen edge resistance option added? It's something I really like in OS4, and something I miss quite a lot on, well, basically every other system.

[amigo1]

Originally Posted by Minuous

@amigao1:

Rest assured that consistency and compatibility with OS3.9 and OS4 wherever feasible are important priorities for us. And I'm sure Gulliver and others could tell you how much I am always stressing the importance of the style guide ;-)

Thank you very much!

@gulliver

I am sure there are a lot of prior decisions you have to deal with, with almost every module you guys are touching and polishing. I am grateful and admire what you are all doing.

About the shortcuts, the ASL requester has been worked on since 3.1, there are new menu entries at least. I just think it is more than a pity they are not consistent with the ones used in Workbench (pointing out I am talking about the GUI, not the Workbench as OS, as many like to refer to it).

RAmiga-T for new drawer?
RAmiga-E for rename?

Really not trying to insist here, but to expand my knowledge about the system. So if ever you get the time for an answer, I'd like to know what is preventing the use of the same shortcuts in ASL as for the workbench?

Is it maybe possible to invoke shortcuts by a script, and as a consequence rendering ASL incompatible with older software if the shortcuts are changed, or is it because of the shortcuts used in other languages so increasing the risk for the user to performe some destructive action (i.e. delete a file) when using a changed shortcut?

Just wondering. Keep up the good work and sunny days to you'all!

[amigo1]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

I'm not sure if I missed any previous mention of it, but is there any chance that the dragging windows off-screen feature could have a screen edge resistance option added? It's something I really like in OS4, and something I miss quite a lot on, well, basically every other system.

That would be neat! I second that!

And another feature I would personally like, (ok might be a lot of work to implement) is some kind of "undo" or "show last performed action" in the Workbench menu.

I know there is a "Last message" menu entry, but it does not tell when a drawer has been dragged/moved somewhere else by accident. Believe it or not, it happened to me; more than once!
This might be more useful than "Attempting to load program 'Multiview' ..." message.

[Thomas Richter]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

I'm not sure if I missed any previous mention of it, but is there any chance that the dragging windows off-screen feature could have a screen edge resistance option added? It's something I really like in OS4, and something I miss quite a lot on, well, basically every other system.

This is already in.

[Jope]

Originally Posted by Thomas Richter

This is already in.

Excellent, I really miss this with 3.1.4.1.

I have a feeling we discussed this before, but have you guys considered screensmenu/windowmenu functionality by long pressing or right clicking on the depth gadgets?

[daxb]

Why not use WinZoom or write a small ARexx script that moves windows by shortcut to the left, right, up, down, stretch to left/right/... screen border. You could have it now and maybe add an undo function.

[Daedalus]

Excellent, thanks!

[torturedutopian]

[Edit] Actually that's exactly Jope's suggestion

I'm sure it was already mentioned so sorry for the noise, but having this built-in (as in MorphOS) is super useful and remains faithful to the Amiga experience : http://aminet.net/package/util/cdity/DepthMenu (contrary to adding OSX, Linux or Windows-like docks/taskbars etc.). Works beautifully under 3.1.

[Jope]

Yep, I use these patches in my machines, but it would be super nice to have it without any patches. :-)

[IanS]

Originally Posted by Steril707

Yeah, do it. Work for a few years on it and then see how many people will follow you with this.

To be honest, this is the only realistic option to have modern stability, drivers for modern devices and interfaces, memory management and multicore/multiprocessor systems. It's not a new idea, stripping down to a relatively bare Linux kernel and adding a compatability layer to use native Linux system calls. As I recall, Amithlon did it and Apple used used a similar idea when going from 68K to X86 too. Not having used AOS 4 or MorphOS myself, I'm not sure if they utilise a similar idea to for their kernels. I daresay even 68K Linux probably has more developers than AOS 3.x too.

I can already hear the protests... "But it wouldn't be Amiga OS!", "It wouldn't be as lightweight or as fast". "Linux is the devil's work!"

Of course, I doubt anybody is likely to do this anyway.

[Samurai_Crow]

Originally Posted by IanS

Of course, I doubt anybody is likely to do this anyway.

Dr. Michal Schulz of the AROS team is working on Arix which is exactly as you described. Since this is not an Arix thread I'll leave it at that.