Some new ideas

Anubis · 27 February 2006, 15:14

Lately I've been using WHDload + ClassicWB (P96) for amiga emulation. Couple things came to my mind while playing some games.

It seems that some games get corrupted/run to fast if CPU Emulation Speed is set to 'Fastest as possible, but mentain chipset timing.' I wonder if we can have option to have RGB CPU speed set at Fastest, while native modes is 'Match A500.'

Does this make any sense?

Also, I noticed that End+1,2,3,4 all remove only DF0.

Bloodwych · 27 February 2006, 21:21

I'm with you! Although I appreciate WinUAE very much and it's near perfect A500 emulation, I've never been happy with the higher model CPU and model support.

There are all kinds of timing and speed issues when running JIT modes that I fear will never be fixed due to the nature of the JIT.

Plus control over the overall timing using the CPU slider or the various chipset options is very minimal - for instance, it's impossible to emulate the speed of a 14Mhz A1200 with/without fastram. Or a 50Mhz 030 etc etc. It's like all or nothing! Hyper speed or snail pace!

A500 emulation is great and runs A500 speeds. Shame we can't have true A1200/A3000/A4000 emulation (ie speeds fixed to the same as the original machines and hardware) and then concentrate on making these modes better for compatibility.

The main reason for your WHDload issues though Anubis is the JIT CPU as pointed out in the ClassicWB docs - "the few titles that do fail are usually down to the emulator's JIT CPU, which has to be used with RTG (P96) graphics. With this is mind I found it's best to use P96 for Workbench and a normal ClassicWB version (without JIT CPU) for games."

Running a normal non-JIT ClassicWB version usually fixes many problems. As previously mentioned however, I'd much rather have real A1200/A4000 020/030/040 fixed speed pre-configured settings which were designed for compatibility like the A500 mode. Or better CPU/chipset control.

Retro-Nerd · 27 February 2006, 21:39

It is possible to change the WinUAE config in emulation. As example set this in the game icon of Turrican 2.

ExecuteStartup=uae-configuration cpu_speed real immediate_blits true
ExecuteCleanup=uae-configuration cpu_speed max immediate_blits false

On gamestart the emulation switches to Amiga 500 Speed and enables the immediate blitter. By pressing the quit key WinUAE switches back to the fastest possible speed and deactivates the immediate blitter setting. So you can use your own settings for every game.

But first you need to copy the "uae-configuration" program ( can be found in amiga programs folder) to c. You need a least WHDLoad 16.5 for this feature.

Toni Wilen · 27 February 2006, 21:50

Not again

I have already explained multiple times why proper A1200+ speeds are "impossible", especially if JIT is enabled. Not going to repeat again.

JIT is simply as fast as possible or disabled. Many may not agree with me but I don't really care much about non-A500 CPU/memory speed compatibility. (does not include "custom chipset compatibility")

<68020: highest priority is compatibility, not speed. most games/demos need good or really good compatibility.

>=68020: speed, not compatibility. fast applications, most 68020+ games work "just fine".

And no, I won't add any "automatic" speed switching because it only solves some problems and will surely break other programs (=and then someone asks for different option for programs that got broken and so on..)

Using uae-configuration is the easiest solution.

Bloodwych · 27 February 2006, 22:05

Yes I know Toni, and I know you're sick of repeating yourself!

I'm well aware of your stance and until someone comes along and says "let me spend loads of my free time helping us all out for nothing" you have every right to go in whatever direction you want! It's your project and we're lucky that you still support it after all these years.

You have to understand why people will continue to bring this up howver. WinUAE will never emulate real Amiga models higher than an A500 with the same compatibility and authentic timing which is a shame. Considering the vast majority of games were A500 specific, I can understand from a practical point of view why you don't want to get involved in higher model specific timings.

If WHDload 16.5 supports setting WinUAE options for different games on execution however, this is an great solution.

Retro-Nerd · 27 February 2006, 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloodwych

If WHDload 16.5 supports setting WinUAE options for different games on execution however, this is an great solution.

I asked Bert for this feature some month ago. Originally this execute startup/cleanup settings could set in the whdload.prefs. But this allow not per game settings. So he made an option to enable this as a tooltype in the start icon. I highly appreciate this, no more glitches and a fast OS after pressing quit.

Bloodwych · 27 February 2006, 22:15

It's an excellent idea and I appreciate you bringing it to my attention!

Toni Wilen · 28 February 2006, 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anubis

Also, I noticed that End+1,2,3,4 all remove only DF0.

END+n? END+n is disk swapper "insert disk from swapper slot n to selected drive"-shortcut, it does not remove disks (except if selected swapper slot is empty) Drive is selected using END+CTRL+x (x=1-4) shortcut.

END+SHIFT+Fx (x=1-4) removes disks from DFx.

Anubis · 03 March 2006, 13:49

Thanks Toni.

Sorry, I had no idea that this was brought before. At the moment just switching mode after game is started fixes the problem.

27 February 2006, 15:14	#1
Anubis Retro Gamer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Underworld Age: 51 Posts: 4,058	Some new ideas Lately I've been using WHDload + ClassicWB (P96) for amiga emulation. Couple things came to my mind while playing some games. It seems that some games get corrupted/run to fast if CPU Emulation Speed is set to 'Fastest as possible, but mentain chipset timing.' I wonder if we can have option to have RGB CPU speed set at Fastest, while native modes is 'Match A500.' Does this make any sense? Also, I noticed that End+1,2,3,4 all remove only DF0.

27 February 2006, 21:21	#2
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	I'm with you! Although I appreciate WinUAE very much and it's near perfect A500 emulation, I've never been happy with the higher model CPU and model support. There are all kinds of timing and speed issues when running JIT modes that I fear will never be fixed due to the nature of the JIT. Plus control over the overall timing using the CPU slider or the various chipset options is very minimal - for instance, it's impossible to emulate the speed of a 14Mhz A1200 with/without fastram. Or a 50Mhz 030 etc etc. It's like all or nothing! Hyper speed or snail pace! A500 emulation is great and runs A500 speeds. Shame we can't have true A1200/A3000/A4000 emulation (ie speeds fixed to the same as the original machines and hardware) and then concentrate on making these modes better for compatibility. The main reason for your WHDload issues though Anubis is the JIT CPU as pointed out in the ClassicWB docs - "the few titles that do fail are usually down to the emulator's JIT CPU, which has to be used with RTG (P96) graphics. With this is mind I found it's best to use P96 for Workbench and a normal ClassicWB version (without JIT CPU) for games." Running a normal non-JIT ClassicWB version usually fixes many problems. As previously mentioned however, I'd much rather have real A1200/A4000 020/030/040 fixed speed pre-configured settings which were designed for compatibility like the A500 mode. Or better CPU/chipset control. Last edited by Bloodwych; 27 February 2006 at 21:31.

27 February 2006, 22:05	#5
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	Yes I know Toni, and I know you're sick of repeating yourself! I'm well aware of your stance and until someone comes along and says "let me spend loads of my free time helping us all out for nothing" you have every right to go in whatever direction you want! It's your project and we're lucky that you still support it after all these years. You have to understand why people will continue to bring this up howver. WinUAE will never emulate real Amiga models higher than an A500 with the same compatibility and authentic timing which is a shame. Considering the vast majority of games were A500 specific, I can understand from a practical point of view why you don't want to get involved in higher model specific timings. If WHDload 16.5 supports setting WinUAE options for different games on execution however, this is an great solution. Last edited by Bloodwych; 27 February 2006 at 22:17.

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27 February 2006, 21:39	#3
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,436	It is possible to change the WinUAE config in emulation. As example set this in the game icon of Turrican 2. ExecuteStartup=uae-configuration cpu_speed real immediate_blits true ExecuteCleanup=uae-configuration cpu_speed max immediate_blits false On gamestart the emulation switches to Amiga 500 Speed and enables the immediate blitter. By pressing the quit key WinUAE switches back to the fastest possible speed and deactivates the immediate blitter setting. So you can use your own settings for every game. But first you need to copy the "uae-configuration" program ( can be found in amiga programs folder) to c. You need a least WHDLoad 16.5 for this feature.

27 February 2006, 21:50	#4
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,505	Not again I have already explained multiple times why proper A1200+ speeds are "impossible", especially if JIT is enabled. Not going to repeat again. JIT is simply as fast as possible or disabled. Many may not agree with me but I don't really care much about non-A500 CPU/memory speed compatibility. (does not include "custom chipset compatibility") <68020: highest priority is compatibility, not speed. most games/demos need good or really good compatibility. >=68020: speed, not compatibility. fast applications, most 68020+ games work "just fine". And no, I won't add any "automatic" speed switching because it only solves some problems and will surely break other programs (=and then someone asks for different option for programs that got broken and so on..) Using uae-configuration is the easiest solution.

27 February 2006, 22:15	#7
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	It's an excellent idea and I appreciate you bringing it to my attention!

03 March 2006, 13:49	#9
Anubis Retro Gamer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Underworld Age: 51 Posts: 4,058	Thanks Toni. Sorry, I had no idea that this was brought before. At the moment just switching mode after game is started fixes the problem.

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