Amithlon Setup Guide

[milanca]

Hi guys,

I am also very glad that this topic and the interest in amithlon is very much alive especially as i had (as Charlie said long and rocky) and for me very painful road to go to get my amithlon working. But that was the price and i am enjoying it all the way now Thanks to Charlie and Alpyre again.

As i tried once among all of my other attempts to run amithlon on my desktop box i tried it also on my laptop. DualCore and Sata1 hdd but with one of just a few supported sata controllers and amithlon worked just great.
http://www.everexstore.com/everex/pr...1t/va2001t.php
I gave up because of poor graphics, in vesa mode.

What i was thinking, is it somehow possible to inject the graphic card support? As one of the guys here mentioned we could have Gary's kernel source; and i have open source (via openchrome) graphic driver; Is there a way to compile the kernel to have accelerated graphic support?

[Charlie]

Ooo, there's been a fair bit of activity sine I last looked

I hope all are having fun with their Amithlon systems rather than 'fun' getting it to work.

It's worth saying that for conveience some of my comments can be half-truths...
eg:
DONT USE SATA WITH AMITHLON!!! I say it because it causes sooo many headaches for so many people...
...having said that it does work under certain circumstances.
I'm sure you've all spotted a few other 1/2 truths of mine including the small point that by the time you've finished following my guide you'll see a faster way of achieving the same goal - my way of doing a sort-of guided tour. 'Knowledge is power' as they say.
Anyway, feel free to question any bold statements I may make - chances are a fair few are for 'protection of the innocent' if you see what I mean.

@milanca:
Amithlon badly needs a new kernel, sadly there are BIG obstacles to that happening:
-Bernie Meyer seriously hacked-about the Linux kernel he based Amithlon on for his own purposes. This means that you can't just swap in a new vanilla Linux kernel because it will be missing all the code Bernie hacked into the old one.
-Sadly there are no known sources for the work Bernie did so adding this stuff to a new kernel will mean a re-write rather than a cut 'n paste.
-Nobody (including Bernie) knows how Amithlon acutally works! Would make a re-write ticklish to say the least.
So a new kernel isn't going to happen unless someone very talented with a lot of time on their hands decides to re-invent the wheel - bummer!

It gets worse I'm afraid:
The Linux kernel driver API changed signifcantly between the generation of kernel Amithlon is based on & the current 'state of the art'. This means that adding support for 'modern' stuff requires bodging newer drivers into the older kernel. After MUCH messing around some of these bodges stick & work (most of the time). This is pretty much what Gary Colville was doing (bless him!).
Sadly again, from comments I remember he ran out of steam because the process of such bodging was getting beyond a joke...
...new bodges not working, making old bodges fall over, things that worked on one setup refusing to on another...
...you get the idea. Also I think Gary was getting a bit p*ssed-off with some negative comments that were flying around:
Lets face it. If you're putting in that much effort what do you want / expect to hear?
'Many thanks Gary for doing such fantastic work - you are a God!'
or
'Why don't you put the sources on a decent server you b*stard? The GNU licence states: Bla, bla, bla & you are VIOLATING IT!!!'
I think it would be reasonable to expect the former, but he get rather a lot of the latter...

So, as I see it there are the following ways forward:
-Leave Amithlon as it is & accept it's a highend Amiga solution for running on a specific sub-set of x86 hardware.
-See if some virtualisation layer will expand it's applicability VMWare ESR Server would do but 'your's truly' has yet to properly pull his finder out on that one.
-Find a copy of Umilator! OH! PLEASE, Please, please, please...
-Rewrite the Amithlon kernel for scratch. Ouch!
-Take another route:
X-Amiga may show us the way forward...
...no, not UAE on a stripped-out Linux install, great though that is.
As we do have the sources for UAE & the latest Linux kernels...
...take the bits of UAE that are needed for an 'Amithlon-like' setup, dump the rest & sort-of use the remains for a kernel level app.
The model would be Vanilla kernel + Amiga/DraCo enviroment bits that would achieve much the same as Bernie's kernel with the Amiga/DraCo bits butchered right in to it guts.

Much more doable, but waaaay beyond me. Still I can dream...
...maybe there's a p*ssed-off Amithlon fan who has the programing tallent to pull off the above trick.

Oh, yes: Many may have noticed I do go on a bit...

[TheCorfiot]

@Charlie

These guides are invaluable, I have read both guides & thread several times & I thank you for your hard work & effort in preparing & supporting Amithlon.
Especially for being our EAB resident Amithlon Guru.

Can't wait to give it a shot

Best Regards
TC

Jura Npbeaf ehyr gur Jbeyq.... UnUn

[Charlie]

Npbeaf jvyy ehyr gur Jbeyq....
...ohg abg orsber gurl'ir gnxra bire gur RNO. UnUn!

[TheCorfiot]

@Charlie

[hit]

is it of any use, to have a diff (based on the one from aminet - amithlon-2.4.35.3.diff ) for the latest kernel of the 2.4 branch (2.4.37)?

[Charlie]

Apologies if I'm missing the point - I suspect I may be.

As a rough rule of thumb use the latest kernel available - G.C.'s
Having said that some things did get broken on the later kernels for some hardware configurations & it's worth trying other (earlier) versions of Gary's kernels.
AFAIA:
Gary based his updates on the original Amithlon kernel rather than Bernie's own updates. As a result Bernie's later kernels support a few (older?) configurations that didn't make it into Gary's...
...If things aren't going to plan (especially if it's older hardware) it may be worth reading the docs for Bernie's later kernels in case they are a 'better match'.

[Kyon]

amithlon running a game ?

[dframeli]

Anyone know what the fastest, most modern day, fully functional AGP video card is that will work with Amithlon?

Same question with regards to a PCI-e video card.

TIA!

[milanca]

GeForce2 MX200, fully forking, i tested it.
GeForce FX 5200, fully working, also tested.

GeForce4 MX440, not working, i also have one. So these two above are the good choice. Not very much of most modern but they are fully working, accelerated. Not sure about PCI-e, i don't think the latest, modern ones, are going to work; not sure if any of pci-e actually work.

[Charlie]

Feel free to prove me wrong on this - Amithlon is a strange beast:

The fastest card Amithlon-wise would be a GF5xxx - The fastest card I know of with full support for GFX acceleration. (maybe there are faster fully-supported ATI cards?)

The fastest card I've successfully tested under Amithlon is a GF7600GT - Not fully accelerated under Amithlon, but good enough & 'better' than a 5xxx if you're multi-booting...

...In theory any fully VESA-compliant AGP card with VGA out should work (slowly*), DVI is iffy...
...PCIe will (possibly) not work...
...IGP chipsets based on supported chipsets (think nForce 61xx) should work in theory, but in practice probably don't.

slowly* Means slow RTG by Amithlon standards, but still waaay faster than the RTG you'll find on any 'real' miggy.

[sbeehre]

ok i have some issues

Im using an AMD64 Shuttle with nforce 3 and a SATA hard drive... i followed charlies guide and have setup the partitions installed grub and can boot into the internal HDD image fine. When i go to HDtoolbox to setup the hard drive it shows up 2 9.0mb AmithlonDiskImages and 1 unknown partition which i assume is the SATA drive... i created a 75GB partition with the type of 76. If i click on it i get an error saying

Sorry, this type of device cannot be handled by HDtoolbox

is this because its a SATA drive? i thought nforce 3 sata was supported with the new kernel?

[sbeehre]

charlie any ideas?

[Charlie]

Hi sbeehre,
Sorry for the slow reply...
...I'm genuinely surprised you got that far with a SATA HDD! Just goes to show some of my advice needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Trying to be more helpful the fact you've gotten this far says your system is fundamentally compatible - good!
(if you could post exact specs for mobo, GFX, etc for others I'd be grateful)

So...
-Amithlon system partition on your primary HDD?
-Your &76 partition is on the same HDD?
Notice the '&' in &76? It's a HEX value, not decimal... Sure you entered it as a Hex value? If you partition software insists on decimal try 118 for the partition value instead.

Did that fix things with HDToolBox?
Yes? Good - Welcome to the wonderful world of Amithlon!

Not fix it? B*gger!
Plan 'B'
Find a spare IDE HDD for testing - any will do.
Remove the SATA drive AND turn off SATA support in the BIOS. Have another go...
...Working? Excellent!
This means your mobo isn't SATA/Amithlon compatible - that's ok, the vast majority aren't.

All the best.

P.S.
DON'T use FFS for your partitions! Honest, I'm serious here - many gig's of data in the hands of FFS?
-Use SFS if you want an easy life.
-PFS is IMO 'better' but can be a swine to get working with Amithlon for some reason.

[sbeehre]

Originally Posted by Charlie

Hi sbeehre,
Sorry for the slow reply...
...I'm genuinely surprised you got that far with a SATA HDD! Just goes to show some of my advice needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Trying to be more helpful the fact you've gotten this far says your system is fundamentally compatible - good!
(if you could post exact specs for mobo, GFX, etc for others I'd be grateful)

So...
-Amithlon system partition on your primary HDD?
-Your &76 partition is on the same HDD?
Notice the '&' in &76? It's a HEX value, not decimal... Sure you entered it as a Hex value? If you partition software insists on decimal try 118 for the partition value instead.

Did that fix things with HDToolBox?
Yes? Good - Welcome to the wonderful world of Amithlon!

Not fix it? B*gger!
Plan 'B'
Find a spare IDE HDD for testing - any will do.
Remove the SATA drive AND turn off SATA support in the BIOS. Have another go...
...Working? Excellent!
This means your mobo isn't SATA/Amithlon compatible - that's ok, the vast majority aren't.

All the best.

P.S.
DON'T use FFS for your partitions! Honest, I'm serious here - many gig's of data in the hands of FFS?
-Use SFS if you want an easy life.
-PFS is IMO 'better' but can be a swine to get working with Amithlon for some reason.

ok here are the specs



CPU support Socket 754-based Athlon 64 processors
Chipset NVIDIA nForce3 150
PCI slots 1 32-bit/33MHz
AGP slots 1, 4X/8X AGP 8X (1.5V only)
Memory 2 184-pin DIMM sockets
Storage I/O Floppy disk 2 channels ATA/133
Serial ATA 2 channels Serial ATA 150 via Sil 3512A Serial ATA controller
RAIDSerial ATA RAID 0, 1 support via Sil 3512A Serial ATA controller
Legacy ports1 PS/2 keyboard, 1 PS/2 mouse, Serial and Parallel portsUSB4 USB 2.0/1.1 ports 2 additional USB 2.0/1.1 used by integrated card reader
Firewire2 IEEE 1394 Firewire ports via VT6307 Firewire controller
Audio 6-channel audio via nForce3 integrated audio and ALC650 DAC rear-mounted analog front, rear, surround, and center outputs shared rear-mounted rear analog line in and microphone inputs front-mounted analog line in and mic inputs, front output
digital S/PDIF input and output ports (Tos-Link)
Video None
Ethernet 10/100 Fast Ethernet via nForce3 150
BIOS Phoenix AwardBIOS

I used the freedos and xfdisk partitioning programs and just set it to 76 not &76 so hopefully that should fix the problem! I will give it a go and report back.

oh yeah im using a PCI radeon 9200 with 128mb of RAM as the AGP Geforce 4 440mx i had gave me garbled graphics when i tried to use the force supported Nvidia cards boot option.

[sbeehre]

well i ended up changing to an IDE drive and its working now... just got to get all the drivers setup etc.

[Charlie]

Originally Posted by sbeehre

well i ended up changing to an IDE drive and its working now... just got to get all the drivers setup etc.

That's a shame, if not a surprise: As a general rule Amithlon won't boot at all if you're using SATA on a mobo it doesn't like, so I was kind-of hoping for you that you had a compatible one...

...still now you're up & running I sincerely hope you enjoy your 'Amithlon experience'...
...chuck anything you want @ your system, hell chuck everything @ it!

Tip:
Once you've got the basics fully installed + stable take an image of your HD_install. Good for backup & it will take all the pain out of your installing Amithlon to other systems...
...it's something of a shame that Amithlon's status remains so ambiguous: Life for everyone would be SO MUCH simpler if I could just post an image of a pre-made HD_install...
...but then where would the masochistic pleasure come from then?


Hmmm, I bet alpyre could produce a truly amazing Amithlon setup if he was minded too...

...do any of our nice mods feel they know enough of Amithlon's situation to render a ruling on all this?
My thanks.

[Methanoid]

Rule always was that if it's still sold or the copyright holder objcecta then NO otherwise YES. And with the status of Amithlon (c) then you should be fine to post just about anything. After all we have Amikit and AmigaSys

I'm trying a faster machine but it's hard when the Yahoo open group are all self centred unhelpful plonkers!!!!

[Charlie]

Originally Posted by Methanoid

Rule always was that if it's still sold or the copyright holder objcecta then NO otherwise YES. And with the status of Amithlon (c) then you should be fine to post just about anything. After all we have Amikit and AmigaSys

I'm trying a faster machine but it's hard when the Yahoo open group are all self centred unhelpful plonkers!!!!

I agree with you on both points:

-Can I (or any other) start posting (public) links to the whole lot? I'd like to.
(or indeed shove a .iso in the old ftp)

-I burned my bridges with the Amithlon.Open group many moons ago - I'm afraid I did one of those major-rant posts you can't really go back on...
...still the group's been around since the year dot so there's lots of useful tit-bits to find in 'stealth mode'.

[cosmicfrog]

you can for me Charlie

would surly be better than updating your fun and interesting instuctions

sneak an iso on to majic ftp and i promise not to tell