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Old 23 December 2008, 16:15   #221
mr.vince
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Alrighty then... just hooked everything up. Sadly, nothing happened. Checked the wiring. Looks all good. Also applied the DRIVE0 DRIVE1 fix by shortening pins 10+16 and 12+14 together.

I have flashed the board with its bootloader, driver looks fine. Windows connects to the board, no problem.

When I open the app, I press "Connect". I then get:

Found USB hardware
Found board - send init
Read Init reply:2
Get version
Get version
Get version
Get version
Read version reply: "v1.4 Nov 10 2004 14:49:33"


Now I press USBTest. The drive does nothing. No light on, no motor on, no stepping. The board also does nothing. No lights, just the power LED is on. This is what the app says:

Found USB hardware
Send command
Reading track0 side 0
Read failed: error 121
Read failed: error 121
Read failed: error 121
Read timeout
Failed to read track 0
Done, read 0 disk sides correctly.

Then I get a bunch of error messages, I assume this happens when checking the raw buffer, to decode to ADF. I get an error for every track.

Any ideas? Will hook up a terminal to see what's coming out of the console.

Best,
Chris
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Old 23 December 2008, 16:37   #222
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichAplin View Post
Drivers for x86, AMD and IA64 are included.
Vista x64 isn't accepting the .inf file. (but works in x86)
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Old 23 December 2008, 17:27   #223
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That looks good (it's connecting to the Atmel bootloader as you see from the version string)
Oopsie, sounds like it's not finding or loading the firmware file, which means it won't get very far.
Ah ha, sorry had the wrong path in there for the 'firmware.bin' file ;-)

Try this...
http://cyclone20.wiki.sourceforge.ne...-12-23-08..zip

heh soz. ;-)

As for the 64-bit thing, erm, yeah that'll probably just be the inf file not being edited correctly I expect. Is probably something very obviousl.
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Old 23 December 2008, 17:56   #224
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Holy cow! It works.

Might need some tweaking and fiddling because some sectors seems to come out wrong, depending on disk and drive. But: Hey, this is an pre-alpha!

So many good things happening these days... first black president in the US... and Rich doing Cyclone again. Or as one might say "Yay!".

Best,
Chris
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Old 23 December 2008, 18:43   #225
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sorry for this stupid question...if anyone can answer it...thx

there are tons of USB floppy disk drives for about 20-25 u$
I think the package includes a controller and a device
examples:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati....asp?CatId=287

so

can that drives works with winuae like a DF0?
why a new controller to use it on winuae if there are tons there which maybe can be modified?
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Old 23 December 2008, 18:56   #226
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Because its the controller that matters. These (ready-made USB controllers) only qualify for the regional drive throwing championship, but not for reading Amiga disks. We wouldn't create our own, if there was one for sale at US$25, would we?!
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Old 23 December 2008, 18:59   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.vince View Post
first black president in the US...
You liked that? That was me too - I hooked him up with the job cos he seemed like a nice lad.
;-p
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Old 23 December 2008, 19:15   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laser View Post
why a new controller to use it on winuae if there are tons there which maybe can be modified?
As Mr Vince points out; because they can't be modified.

USB drives have their own disk controllers in which only read and write regular PC format disks and cannot be reprogrammed. (Although rather impressive is http://simonowen.com/fdrawcmd/ but not suitable)

BTW in passing, once again Toni and IPW (and others) have done tons of work on low level disk format stuff over the years; Toni did a sweet bit of code called FDI2Raw back in 2002 which is a very handy (encodes multiple standard formats; Amiga, PC, Atari, - not just FDI files - into MFM) and would be a useful module for Cyclone along with IPF support. Both of these I think would be easiest (least typing) done as with C code support DLL that are hooked into the C# app (assuming the C# app survives the test of time).

IPF write support is a case of linking in the SPS Caps DLL which looks v.straightfwd from the docs on the SPS site. IPF read support would require the SPS folks to release their analysis app which is not just a 'fire and forget' tool by the sound of it, and probably not at all easy to bundle up into a simple package, but we'll see.

Basically there's a ton of great C code out there already for doing the boring bit-twiddling on raw disk data. Props to those authors for giving their stuff away.

My plan is to get raw write working and upload the src code (tomorrow prolly).

Last edited by RichAplin; 23 December 2008 at 20:33.
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Old 23 December 2008, 20:02   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichAplin View Post
As for the 64-bit thing, erm, yeah that'll probably just be the inf file not being edited correctly I expect. Is probably something very obviousl.
This seems to fix it:

Code:
--- Cyclone20 USB driver.inf.o  2008-12-18 08:04:52.000000000 +0200
+++ Cyclone20 USB driver.inf    2008-12-23 19:53:10.345483500 +0200
@@ -11,12 +11,16 @@
 ; ========== Manufacturer/Models sections ===========

 [Manufacturer]
-%ProviderName% = MyDevice_WinUSB,NTx86
+%ProviderName% = MyDevice_WinUSB,NTx86,NTamd64

 [MyDevice_WinUSB.NTx86]
 ;                       SET USB ID HERE 03eb:6124 is Atmel bootstrap default
 %USB\MyDevice.DeviceDesc% =USB_Install, USB\VID_03eb&PID_6124

+[MyDevice_WinUSB.NTamd64]
+;                       SET USB ID HERE 03eb:6124 is Atmel bootstrap default
+%USB\MyDevice.DeviceDesc% =USB_Install, USB\VID_03eb&PID_6124
+
 ; =================== Installation ===================

 [USB_Install]
@@ -68,8 +72,11 @@
 [SourceDisksNames.x86]
 1 = %DISK_NAME%,,,\i386

+[SourceDisksNames.amd64]
+1 = %DISK_NAME%,,,\amd64
+

-[SourceDisksFiles.x86]
+[SourceDisksFiles]
 WinUSBCoInstaller.dll=1
 WdfCoInstaller01007.dll=1
 WUDFUpdate_01007.dll=1
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Old 23 December 2008, 20:27   #230
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It was! :-) Thanks!
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Old 24 December 2008, 10:28   #231
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Mkay disk writing works fine. I think we're what, 6 pages into this thread and the end may be in sight. ;-)

It only writes test tracks at the moment (i.e. writes ones and zeros over your nice pristine data) if I had a bit more time I'd drop in Amiga MFM sector encoding so you can write ADF images ... but I have to go + do other stuff for a few weeks, like work out how best to keep beer cold on an island with no electricity. I looked at solar and wind-turbine powered coolers/fridges, but compressor based fridges are expensive and would need a (noisy) wind turbine, and peltier coolers are a bit of a joke really. Meh, stupid science.
I am taking "Solar Powered Stan Getz", which is a 13watt solar panel, embedded linux device with speakers + a gig of flash, but that's another thread, website, or perhaps whole alternate reality.

Ahem anyway, so you'd think I'd be sick of typing it by now, but yet again, yay.

Ah yes, source code..
Wait till you see the fugly state of it - it's not so much a gift from Santa as a pungent present from one of his reindeers, but it's a start.
;-p

http://cyclone20.wiki.sourceforge.ne...p-12-24-08.zip

We'll put it up on sourceforge subversion so people can usefully collaboratively hack on it, but there's something to get the snowball rolling.
Cheers, happy Xmas to everyone.
Rich.

Last edited by RichAplin; 24 December 2008 at 11:51.
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Old 24 December 2008, 13:31   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichAplin View Post
... but I have to go + do other stuff for a few weeks, like work out how best to keep beer cold on an island with no electricity.
Couldn't you place the beer in the ocean water or is the island in the middle of equator?

Good news on the project.
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Old 24 December 2008, 14:14   #233
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I'd recommend an evaporation fridge. Does not need any electricity at all. Just get some material with a highly porous surface (coal e.g. is great), make a box out of it, place it in the sun and steadily rinse with water. This really works. Black cardboard works, too. Can be made more stable using styrofoam, and using a small block of ice as a starter should work well over the day.

Great holidays, Merry Christmas and / or the Season's Greetings to all of you.

Rich: Thanks for doing what you've done. This is a great "toy" for anyone involved in classic computing. Never thought some PMs would result in such a project being born. I look forward to playing with the code somewhen after christmas.
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Old 24 December 2008, 20:32   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post
Jean-Francois Del Nero, the guy who created the floppy disk emulator claims to have reverse engineered IPF format.

http://jeanfrancoisdelnero.free.fr/f...tor/index.html

He said in a post to this forum (or was it Amiga.org?) that his stand alone emulator supports IPF images with copy protection.

If he has, he should be able to help here too. Msg him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh
But:

http://www.amiga.org/modules/newbb/v...orumpost555456

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_HxC2001
Regarding the ipf format (and pasti), the standalone version [of the FDD emulator] already support it !
nope alexh: i didn't claim to have reverse engineered the IPF format. Supporting IPF format != hacking it .
i use my software to convert them to the standalone floppy emulator file format:

http://jeanfrancoisdelnero.free.fr/f...r_soft_src.zip

Last edited by Jeff_HxC2001; 24 December 2008 at 20:48.
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Old 24 December 2008, 20:41   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post
I think that the floppy emulator is a 2nd function.

(1) Connect to PC and Floppy disk drive to READ & WRITE real disks at high accuracy.
(2) Connect to Amiga and SD card and emulate disks from images.

(2) is the area which overlaps the HxC emulator. From what I've read floppy emulation is just a feasible idea which could be done with the same hardware. Something for later on rather than a primary project goal at this point.
But (1) & (2) will overlaps the HxC emulator and the Sdiskemul soon. We are working together on a new hardware able to emulate an floppy disc drive and read/write real drive too.
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Old 24 December 2008, 21:50   #236
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I've grabbed Rich's code and am going to clean it up a bit. I'll post an updated zip file here in the next day or so.

If everyone agrees, we can start the sourceforge project off with a little more solid codebase.

-C6
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Old 24 December 2008, 23:08   #237
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Yes please. C6 can be sourceforge admin, I'll add you to the sourceforge project. All that code tidying and subversion stuff? ick. ;-)

Anyone else who wants commit access needs a sourceforge account too, you just go set up a generic one and we add you to the project as required.

Jeff_HxC2001 :
Splendid. So many people all working on things and sharing code - I love open source! It's like the hippies won after all. ;-)
Perhaps someone here will plug code in to the C# app to convert all these possible formats (IPF, ADF, ADF raw, FDI, etc, as well as the zillions of other individual emulation formats.
I suggest that someone (c6?) tidies the code such that people can plug in both C DLL's (for pragmatism) and C# classes (for niceness) to the Mr Floppy app, to perform track encode/decode of whatever format is required.


Worth noting that emlating a floppy drive (read-only) to a real computer is almost exactly the same thing as writing to a disk (from the cyclone's point of view). A few ARM firmware tweaks and change the data direction on the control lines. Very minor changes to the C# app.
If it's not done by the time I get back... I'll do it ;-)

Festive hugs,
Rich

Update:
Indeed, Jeff_HxC2001 has done a lot of good stuff here; I think I got lucky finding simpler hardware to use (one chip which usefully has really high timer resolution and can run standalone w/SD card), but he's done a lot more work on the software side - looking at "common\usb_floppyemulator\variablebitrate.c" I see he + I ended up at similar solutions for a track data stream; indeed it would be fun+simple to tweak his code slightly to output a track datastream that's feeds straight (for writing and emulation) into the current Cyclone firmware (or tweak cyclone to read your output format, equally). That's probably the #1 easiest way to get IPF writing working and what I'd do right now if I had two seconds to rub together. Nice work Jeff! Tidy code and... comments in french, which is really cool and a pleasure to read. Joyeux Noël!

Last edited by RichAplin; 24 December 2008 at 23:40.
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Old 25 December 2008, 01:12   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichAplin View Post
Yes please. C6 can be sourceforge admin, I'll add you to the sourceforge project. All that code tidying and subversion stuff? ick. ;-)

Anyone else who wants commit access needs a sourceforge account too, you just go set up a generic one and we add you to the project as required.

Jeff_HxC2001 :
Splendid. So many people all working on things and sharing code - I love open source! It's like the hippies won after all. ;-)
Perhaps someone here will plug code in to the C# app to convert all these possible formats (IPF, ADF, ADF raw, FDI, etc, as well as the zillions of other individual emulation formats.
I suggest that someone (c6?) tidies the code such that people can plug in both C DLL's (for pragmatism) and C# classes (for niceness) to the Mr Floppy app, to perform track encode/decode of whatever format is required.


Worth noting that emlating a floppy drive (read-only) to a real computer is almost exactly the same thing as writing to a disk (from the cyclone's point of view). A few ARM firmware tweaks and change the data direction on the control lines. Very minor changes to the C# app.
If it's not done by the time I get back... I'll do it ;-)

Festive hugs,
Rich

Update:
Indeed, Jeff_HxC2001 has done a lot of good stuff here; I think I got lucky finding simpler hardware to use (one chip which usefully has really high timer resolution and can run standalone w/SD card), but he's done a lot more work on the software side - looking at "common\usb_floppyemulator\variablebitrate.c" I see he + I ended up at similar solutions for a track data stream; indeed it would be fun+simple to tweak his code slightly to output a track datastream that's feeds straight (for writing and emulation) into the current Cyclone firmware (or tweak cyclone to read your output format, equally). That's probably the #1 easiest way to get IPF writing working and what I'd do right now if I had two seconds to rub together. Nice work Jeff! Tidy code and... comments in french, which is really cool and a pleasure to read. Joyeux Noël!
I think that the variablebitrate.c source code is a little too complex for your application, because in this code i merged side 0 & 1 MFM data in the same data bitstream to allow an immediate floppy side switching through an usb connection (emulation context…).
This implied timing correction between side 0 & 1 and some others tricks. I think this is not needed for a simple write to disc application : you only need a side data bitstream (0 or 1).

But inserting some opcodes in the MFM bitstream to change bitrate, signal status ,etc to reduce the bandwidth/memory space needed to write a track on a disc is the main idea that can be used.
This is depending of your implementation.

Joyeux Noel & Bonne Année

Last edited by Jeff_HxC2001; 25 December 2008 at 01:18.
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Old 25 December 2008, 02:00   #239
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I've checked in some early code into the repo.

I'm using TortiseSVN.
If you plan on contributing to the code, please add the following pattern to your client's global ignore settings (this prevents compiled data being placed in svn)

Global Ignore:
"bin obj *.user Debug Release"

The url to the repository is:
https://cyclone20.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/cyclone20

Last edited by Crackersixx; 29 December 2008 at 19:19.
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Old 27 December 2008, 02:41   #240
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Working on adding a plugin interface.
Rich's zip file of the source will remain the most functional code for now.

Latest exe: http://www.reversers.net/Cyclone20.rar

If anyone else is interested in helping work on the source, please PM or email me and I will add you to SF.

Thanks,
-C6

Last edited by Crackersixx; 27 December 2008 at 06:00.
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