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Old 04 March 2019, 20:37   #21
Pyromania
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Get that Reloaded shipped already!
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Old 04 March 2019, 21:37   #22
eXeler0
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Tbh, the Chucky's ReAmiga 1200 + the mysterious Belgian project (http://www.amigaclub.be/projects/amiga1200plus) will provide that new A1200-like mobo the "reloaded" was supposed to be.
And I'd imagine some of the skilled members who regularly build complete populated boards from others designs will offer fully populated ReAmiga1200+ boards (or whatever they'll call it..)
As for pricing... Speculating here...
Lets assume pcb + connectors = €60 +€140 for the AGA chipset from iComp + assembly cost + other smaller chips = €100 = about €300 anyway.. I dont think the iComp price of €350 was unreasonable, but after all the delays it sure smells vaporware whereas Chunky and Co are delivering the goods..
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Old 04 March 2019, 22:23   #23
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I emailed Jens about this a few months back asking if the sale of custom chips and 23pin connectors meant that Amiga Reloaded was cancelled and his response was that no it isn't, he just has a shed load of those parts. I'd imagine demand for Amiga Reloaded will be a lot lower now anyway after Chuckies ReAmiga so that's probably a factor.
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Old 05 March 2019, 08:43   #24
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I emailed Jens about this a few months back asking if the sale of custom chips and 23pin connectors meant that Amiga Reloaded was cancelled and his response was that no it isn't, he just has a shed load of those parts. I'd imagine demand for Amiga Reloaded will be a lot lower now anyway after Chuckies ReAmiga so that's probably a factor.
The really exciting thing about Amiga Reloaded was the non-blocking chip RAM access -- I don't think Chuckies does that. =/
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Old 05 March 2019, 08:52   #25
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350,- EUR ballpark
LOL... More overpriced shit from a company that doesn't give a fuck about the Amiga.
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Old 05 March 2019, 08:53   #26
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the mysterious Belgian project (http://www.amigaclub.be/projects/amiga1200plus)



How is it mysterious? All information is right there in the bitbucket project?
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Old 05 March 2019, 17:24   #27
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The really exciting thing about Amiga Reloaded was the non-blocking chip RAM access -- I don't think Chuckies does that. =/
If you want a technical modification of the original technology, why would you go for something that gives you a few percent extra and not for something that is hundred times faster like the Vampires with Gold3 cores (admittedly still in alpha status which still is more than vapourware status) that have something like 600 MB/s mem bandwidth? I mean, I can fully understand the purists that want original hardware, there is no need to discuss this. But if one accepts technical progress, in my view it should be as large as possible.
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Old 06 March 2019, 15:11   #28
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Before I "go" with anything, I want to see a video of someone who actually knows how to animate with Deluxe Paint and Brilliance use the hardware and provide a detailed review of how those programs behave on the hardware when pushing the limits. Just loading an image and waving around a brush doesn't prove much.
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Old 06 March 2019, 17:55   #29
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Vampire is non-standard (AFAIK it even requires custom ROM to normally utilize the board fast RAM), it's MMU is not compatible with any previous M68k family CPU, most of it's features are undocumented, the team is deaf to remarks from software developers, they are tolerating piracy of software which can still be legally purchased. Seriously... not the greatest solution, more interesting things are happening in the land of MiSTer since Alynna joined the effort.

As for the speed - IMHO for legacy machines it's useful only up to certain point; Amiga architecture (HW & OS) is really too outdated for modern uses.

[edit] From my point of view - Amiga Reloaded + CS Labs 68060 accelerator (in development) would be a dream real-chip machine

Last edited by Romanujan; 06 March 2019 at 18:06.
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Old 06 March 2019, 18:22   #30
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that belgian board looks interesting be cool to add a prometheus to it as the design is using pci pmc connectors easily add our pmc cards and have a small form factor still
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Old 06 March 2019, 23:00   #31
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most of it's features are undocumented

I'm not 100% sure if the published documentation is complete or not, but it does seem that developer documentation for the 68080 does exist:


http://www.apollo-core.com/index.htm?page=instructions


That said, if the Vampire isn't a project you're interested in, that's fine, would be good to have some healthy competition in the high end of the Amiga accelerator market.

Last edited by HenryCase; 06 March 2019 at 23:05.
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Old 06 March 2019, 23:10   #32
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there already is if you like PPC we done hit 1GHz+
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Old 07 March 2019, 00:23   #33
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Originally Posted by Romanujan View Post
Vampire is non-standard (AFAIK it even requires custom ROM to normally utilize the board fast RAM), it's MMU is not compatible with any previous M68k family CPU, most of it's features are undocumented, the team is deaf to remarks from software developers, they are tolerating piracy of software which can still be legally purchased. Seriously... not the greatest solution, more interesting things are happening in the land of MiSTer since Alynna joined the effort.

As for the speed - IMHO for legacy machines it's useful only up to certain point; Amiga architecture (HW & OS) is really too outdated for modern uses.

[edit] From my point of view - Amiga Reloaded + CS Labs 68060 accelerator (in development) would be a dream real-chip machine
I think you just made up 99% of the info in your comment. Have you even visited the Apollo forum? As for documentation, the Apollo core is 100% compatible with all previous 68K varieties so you can use the reference materials for any of those processors that suit you. The AMMX extensions are also well documented and here they are WITH example code: http://www.apollo-core.com/AMMX.doc.txt

The 1% that you did get right is in regard to MMU compatibility which is pointless for classic Amigas anyway. None of the classic varieties of AmigaOS ever used the MMU. It's only real use on classics was to map roms or debug poorly behaving code.
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Old 07 March 2019, 01:04   #34
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The 1% that you did get right is in regard to MMU compatibility which is pointless for classic Amigas anyway. None of the classic varieties of AmigaOS ever used the MMU. It's only real use on classics was to map roms or debug poorly behaving code.

There were a few applications which used the MMU, Gigamem, Shapeshifter EVDs, some games had an MMU-speedup mode. But don't let me stop you from believing what you are so sure about. Someone should really tell Thor his MMULib project is fake and doesn't run on classic Amigas.
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Old 07 March 2019, 01:27   #35
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If you see the downloads counter of http://aminet.net/package/util/libs/MMULib then at least some users seem to use it. If this is only ~1% of all Amiga users then...
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Old 07 March 2019, 01:45   #36
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There were a few applications which used the MMU, Gigamem, Shapeshifter EVDs, some games had an MMU-speedup mode. But don't let me stop you from believing what you are so sure about. Someone should really tell Thor his MMULib project is fake and doesn't run on classic Amigas.

Exactly. As I said earlier and you completely chose to disregard, the apps you mention need RAM/ROM locations mapped or re-mapped . 99.9% of classic Amiga software didn't need or use the MMU. And if a 100% compatible MMU is a requirement then you should stick to a real Motorola CPU. Why do you act like someone is forcing you to even buy an Apollo? The Apollo makes perfect sense for the 99.9% percent of users who neither want nor require a backward compatible MMU but want a fast alternative. And where did I state or even imply that the MMU lib wouldn't run on classic hardware? I don't even know how to respond to that except to say that there must be a language barrier or a problem with your reading comprehension if English is your first language.

Apparently you aren't aware of what Thor's MMU library really does. Again, it maps/re-maps RAM and ROM locations which 99.9% of classic software doesn't require.

And you apparently just copied/pasted exactly what was listed on Aminet about Thor's MMU library...and I will quote it again for you directly from Aminet so that we can subtract some originality points from your post,
"The mmu.library is a basis for MMU (memory management) related functions the MC68K family can perform. Up to now certain hacks are available that program the MMU themselves Enforcer,CyberGuard,GuardianAngle,SetCPU,Shapeshifter,VMM,GigaMem...). "

Again, debugging, mapping/re-mapping, and for virtual machines, virtual memory, and emulators. I don't see a single game in that list and I challenge you to provide a list of 68K games that required an MMU. I doubt you will come up with a list of more than 2 games in total. Hint: emulators for other systems that run a game do not count...such as the NeoGeo emulator. That is an emulator, not a game.

Maybe you should have Thor explain what his MMU really does....Hint: it isn't needed for classic software or classic games.

Last edited by ferrellsl; 07 March 2019 at 02:32.
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Old 07 March 2019, 01:51   #37
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If you see the downloads counter of http://aminet.net/package/util/libs/MMULib then at least some users seem to use it. If this is only ~1% of all Amiga users then...
Do you not realize that the download counter is cumulative and goes back about 19 years? The number displayed is not representative of how many people may still be using that library. It is a cumulative counter for all previous version downloads up to now. It would be rather ridiculous to believe that there are still 12000 active users of this library let alone 12000 active 68K users still left on the planet.
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Old 07 March 2019, 02:35   #38
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Hint: it isn't needed for classic software or classic games.

You're talking about Apollo, not me. I was merely mentioning two pieces of software which I used on my Classic Amigas, Gigamem required it and some Shapeshifter EVDs were far faster with an MMU.
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Old 07 March 2019, 02:46   #39
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You're talking about Apollo, not me. I was merely mentioning two pieces of software which I used on my Classic Amigas, Gigamem required it and some Shapeshifter EVDs were far faster with an MMU.
Ah, I see. Then we are in violent agreement!
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Old 07 March 2019, 03:22   #40
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Exactly. As I said earlier and you completely chose to disregard, the apps you mention need RAM/ROM locations mapped or re-mapped . 99.9% of classic Amiga software didn't need or use the MMU. And if a 100% compatible MMU is a requirement then you should stick to a real Motorola CPU. Why do you act like someone is forcing you to even buy an Apollo? The Apollo makes perfect sense for the 99.9% percent of users who neither want nor require a backward compatible MMU but want a fast alternative. And where did I state or even imply that the MMU lib wouldn't run on classic hardware? I don't even know how to respond to that except to say that there must be a language barrier or a problem with your reading comprehension if English is your first language.

Apparently you aren't aware of what Thor's MMU library really does. Again, it maps/re-maps RAM and ROM locations which 99.9% of classic software doesn't require.

And you apparently just copied/pasted exactly what was listed on Aminet about Thor's MMU library...and I will quote it again for you directly from Aminet so that we can subtract some originality points from your post,
"The mmu.library is a basis for MMU (memory management) related functions the MC68K family can perform. Up to now certain hacks are available that program the MMU themselves Enforcer,CyberGuard,GuardianAngle,SetCPU,Shapeshifter,VMM,GigaMem...). "

Again, debugging, mapping/re-mapping, and for virtual machines, virtual memory, and emulators. I don't see a single game in that list and I challenge you to provide a list of 68K games that required an MMU. I doubt you will come up with a list of more than 2 games in total. Hint: emulators for other systems that run a game do not count...such as the NeoGeo emulator. That is an emulator, not a game.

Maybe you should have Thor explain what his MMU really does....Hint: it isn't needed for classic software or classic games.
Sorry, but if ApolloCore 68080 want to be CPU compatible with Motorola 680x0, then must have compatible MMU. Same for FPU, must be MC68882 compatible. But if Apollo Team want to create AmigaCore only, then no compatible MMU is perhaps Ok. Exactly if for Apollo Team, only Amiga market is direct and the only target, then this is Ok. But if for Apollo Team target is all MC680x0 systems, then this is not Ok. Remember exist many 680x0 systems which need compatible MMU and full FPU. Amix, MacOS, Next, Atari, embedded systems, military systems (need full MC68882) etc.
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